SS Luger at Collectors Firearms

ChadC · 02-28-2015, 11:15 PM

Hi,
Just trying to educate myself on a new subject. Since I couldn't tell this particular Luger from pretty much any other one, and the hefty price tag, can anyone point out what makes this real or fake? I've searched here and around the net, but nothing definitive. I have learned(I think) that there is no proof the SS marked their weapons in such a manner, and most floating around out there are fake.

Thanks!
Chad

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=38416

tomaustin · 02-28-2015, 11:39 PM

with all the incorrect spelling of words in the description, i wonder if they have any ability to know what they have....much less the markings on the piece........

ChadC · 03-01-2015, 12:33 AM

You'd think they would take the time to spellcheck....LOL.

Sergio Natali · 03-01-2015, 03:26 AM

QUOTE: There is no proof the SS marked their weapons in such a manner, and most floating around out there are fake. UNQUOTE

I agree, then the so called Death's Head Totenkopf is pretty rarely found, moreover if I'm not wrong German Imperial units adopted the Deathhead as their symbol, that is why we see it in several German units.

Sergio

sheepherder · 03-01-2015, 09:56 AM

I find it sad and surprising that a dealer [Simpsons] is presenting this as if it were authentic, and at such an inflated price.

I've dealt with Simpsons [bought my 1900AE from them] and have been of the opinion that they were one of the 'good ones'...

When I called Simpsons, Floyd Gray took my call, pulled the 1900AE out of "the vault", and called out every descriptive detail he could think of as he examined it. No other dealership has done this for me.

While I understand that Simpsons wants to make money on their sales, a disclaimer would surely be in order for this Luger. I would be hard pressed to recommend Simpsons in the future.

mrerick · 03-01-2015, 10:15 AM

To my knowledge the only SS / RHSA firearms that have distinctive markings are the Walther PPK pistols that appear in a known serial number range, and that have serial numbers on their magazines as well as the muzzle area.

Marc

lugerholsterrepair · 03-01-2015, 10:42 AM

That's a funny ad! The pumpkin head looks like he has steam coming off the top of his head..It's all rediculous BS. Why is this the only Luger known to all mankind marked like this? Cause some BUBBA marked it. Idiotic.

ChadC · 03-01-2015, 11:06 AM

Thanks for all the info! I'm glad there's such a resource as this forum to help!

wlyon · 03-01-2015, 03:39 PM

Simpsons has taken some giant steps backward the last couple years. This is a large step. Bill

rhinemann · 03-01-2015, 06:38 PM

I agree with Bill, a very large step. A pumpkin head with steam rising, now that's funny.

Jeffrey

DTR04 · 03-01-2015, 06:57 PM

They also list this one:

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=38369

Real or fake?

saab-bob · 03-01-2015, 07:38 PM

At least this gun has the faint POSSIBILITY of being real.

Its a WW1 luger and the marking is in the usual area. As this august forum has pondered,this marking might be for the flamethower units in WW1 or some Freikorps unit.

I notice it is on hold already!
Bob

Grantas · 03-02-2015, 01:29 AM

This is the marking in question

Sieger · 03-02-2015, 02:49 AM

Hi,

Authentic marking? If so, one would think that we would have seen one like it before.

The subject Totenkopf itself resembles the one the SS used on their caps. The two little markings above it look to me like the double Siegrun Hitler adopted from the ancient German Runic alphabet. This is the symbol for victory.

Just some thoughts.

Sieger

sheepherder · 03-02-2015, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grantas

This is the marking in question

That's the second posted/linked Totenkopf. This is the one ChadC questioned. [pic below]

lew1 · 03-02-2015, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

To my knowledge the only SS / RHSA firearms that have distinctive markings are the Walther PPK pistols that appear in a known serial number range, and that have serial numbers on their magazines as well as the muzzle area.

Marc

There is the 'K under' version which is SS/RHSA which is identified by the fact that the markings are 'K under"

K under - is where the serial number is on the slide and the 'K' is under the numbers instead of behind the numbers.

There is also the version that has the serial number stamped on the slide. These occur below approx serial no. 335xxx.

Before 335xxx (approx) Walther did not put the serial number on the outside of the slide on PPKs. After 335xxx approx, Walther put the serial number on the outside of the slide on all PPKs, but the SS/RSHA ones had the 'K' under the serial number.

After the 'K under' version, then one has to look for the numbered mag to determine if it is a SS/RSHA version.

Edward Tinker · 03-02-2015, 07:50 AM

why does it say "Collectors Firearms' in the title - you realize that is another company

if you see a mistake, call them and tell them

however, from what i understand, if it is consigned then they will put the buyers description in it.

This 'variation' is still listed in several books.

Call Bob or Brad and talk to them, after they get back from Louisville...

sheepherder · 03-02-2015, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

This 'variation' is still listed in several books.

Yes, but have you ever seen it on the side of the barrel and again on the side of the barrel extension?

The second one, with the sizzling pumpkin on the chamber, might be kosher [so to speak]...

I have to side with Jerry on this one...No one knows steamy pumpkins like he does...

Vlim · 03-02-2015, 11:41 AM

Totally bogus markings. There is no reason for them to exist on the gun at all. Why would they reproof a gun that was already proof marked?

Even funnier is that the real SS pistols are already in many collections and collectors cannot identify them as such, because they have no additional markings to identify them

alanint · 03-02-2015, 01:38 PM

How long before psychometry readings become a sales tool?

02-28-2015, 11:15 PM	#1
ChadC User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	SS Luger at Collectors Firearms Hi, Just trying to educate myself on a new subject. Since I couldn't tell this particular Luger from pretty much any other one, and the hefty price tag, can anyone point out what makes this real or fake? I've searched here and around the net, but nothing definitive. I have learned(I think) that there is no proof the SS marked their weapons in such a manner, and most floating around out there are fake. Thanks! Chad http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=38416

03-01-2015, 03:26 AM	#4
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	QUOTE: There is no proof the SS marked their weapons in such a manner, and most floating around out there are fake. UNQUOTE I agree, then the so called Death's Head Totenkopf is pretty rarely found, moreover if I'm not wrong German Imperial units adopted the Deathhead as their symbol, that is why we see it in several German units. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-01-2015, 09:56 AM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,413 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	I find it sad and surprising that a dealer [Simpsons] is presenting this as if it were authentic, and at such an inflated price. I've dealt with Simpsons [bought my 1900AE from them] and have been of the opinion that they were one of the 'good ones'... When I called Simpsons, Floyd Gray took my call, pulled the 1900AE out of "the vault", and called out every descriptive detail he could think of as he examined it. No other dealership has done this for me. While I understand that Simpsons wants to make money on their sales, a disclaimer would surely be in order for this Luger. I would be hard pressed to recommend Simpsons in the future. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

03-01-2015, 10:15 AM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	To my knowledge the only SS / RHSA firearms that have distinctive markings are the Walther PPK pistols that appear in a known serial number range, and that have serial numbers on their magazines as well as the muzzle area. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-01-2015, 10:42 AM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	That's a funny ad! The pumpkin head looks like he has steam coming off the top of his head..It's all rediculous BS. Why is this the only Luger known to all mankind marked like this? Cause some BUBBA marked it. Idiotic. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-28-2015, 11:39 PM	#2
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	with all the incorrect spelling of words in the description, i wonder if they have any ability to know what they have....much less the markings on the piece........

03-01-2015, 12:33 AM	#3
ChadC User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	You'd think they would take the time to spellcheck....LOL.

03-01-2015, 11:06 AM	#8
ChadC User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for all the info! I'm glad there's such a resource as this forum to help!

03-01-2015, 03:39 PM	#9
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,613 Times in 969 Posts	Simpsons has taken some giant steps backward the last couple years. This is a large step. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

03-01-2015, 06:38 PM	#10
rhinemann User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: S. Calif. Posts: 68 Thanks: 14 Thanked 25 Times in 13 Posts	I agree with Bill, a very large step. A pumpkin head with steam rising, now that's funny. Jeffrey

03-01-2015, 06:57 PM	#11
DTR04 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 52 Thanks: 93 Thanked 36 Times in 18 Posts	They also list this one: http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=38369 Real or fake?

03-01-2015, 07:38 PM	#12
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	At least this gun has the faint POSSIBILITY of being real. Its a WW1 luger and the marking is in the usual area. As this august forum has pondered,this marking might be for the flamethower units in WW1 or some Freikorps unit. I notice it is on hold already! Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns" Last edited by saab-bob; 03-03-2015 at 12:04 AM. Reason: review of previous posts

03-02-2015, 01:29 AM	#13
Grantas Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: New Zealand Posts: 55 Thanks: 274 Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts	This is the marking in question Attached Thumbnails __________________ LOOKING for Erfurt Takedown lever and sideplate number 44 also DWM Magazine 2823a

03-02-2015, 02:49 AM	#14
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,142 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	Hi, Authentic marking? If so, one would think that we would have seen one like it before. The subject Totenkopf itself resembles the one the SS used on their caps. The two little markings above it look to me like the double Siegrun Hitler adopted from the ancient German Runic alphabet. This is the symbol for victory. Just some thoughts. Sieger

03-02-2015, 07:50 AM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	why does it say "Collectors Firearms' in the title - you realize that is another company if you see a mistake, call them and tell them however, from what i understand, if it is consigned then they will put the buyers description in it. This 'variation' is still listed in several books. Call Bob or Brad and talk to them, after they get back from Louisville...

03-02-2015, 11:41 AM	#19
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Totally bogus markings. There is no reason for them to exist on the gun at all. Why would they reproof a gun that was already proof marked? Even funnier is that the real SS pistols are already in many collections and collectors cannot identify them as such, because they have no additional markings to identify them

03-02-2015, 01:38 PM	#20
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	How long before psychometry readings become a sales tool?