Mauser Parabellum pistols .30 cal 5" barrels

Joe in Colorado · 07-11-2020, 11:06 PM

Here's a few quick photos of Mauser Parabellum pistols with the scarce 5 inch (12 CM) barrel length.

Photo 01 shows the sure fire way to identify the 5" barrel variation-it doesn't fit the styrofoam box! Notice the crude chunk torn out between the 4" and 6" front sight locations.

Photo 02 shows this pistol next to a Model 29. I would say this pistol-10 004558-is as close as Mauser ever came to duplicating the M29.

Photo 03-moving up 50 numbers to 10 004618-is the same type except with P08 style safety. Shown next to regular 6" length 06/73.

Photo 04 shows a 5" "Last Production" variation made in 1985 on it's related page (459) in "The Parabellum is Back", our must-have reference book.

Photo 05 shows this pistol with a 1900 AE. I could call this a "First and Last" Luger photo-spanning from @1902 to 1985. Kind of ironic the "Last Production" Luger harps back to the first model with the 1900 style dished toggle.

Photo 06 is just the other side of these two pistols.

Hope you enjoy these, best wishes, Joe

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Ron Wood · 07-12-2020, 12:03 AM

Nicely done!
Ron

rhuff · 07-12-2020, 03:34 PM

I have to admit, that in my mind, the 5" bbl is the perfect length for a Luger. I have a "Heinz 57" Luger with a 5" bbl. and it is my favorite shooter.

Thanx for the photos!!

Doubs · 07-12-2020, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

I have to admit, that in my mind, the 5" bbl is the perfect length for a Luger. I have a "Heinz 57" Luger with a 5" bbl. and it is my favorite shooter.

I agree with 6" second as the ideal barrel length for a Luger. I also prefer a 5" barrel on a revolver.

Vlim · 07-12-2020, 05:37 PM

Initially, Mauser had no plans to bring out a 5" version. The 4" and 6" were planned first, with the 4" 7,65 version giving problems with the 06/29 style opening curve, that explains why most early 29/70 pistols were 6".

Then Mauser got the idea to seek permission from the Swiss army to get the 5" Mauser Parabellum officially recognized as a Swiss Ordnance pistol (so it could legally be used by Swiss army personnel for shooting). This was denied by the Swiss army, stating that the Mauser Parabellum could only be used as a 'free pistol' in official shooting matches, but not as a 'service pistol'. Basically, this decision killed a large market for the 5" version.

In the end only a couple of hundred 5" versions were made, the majority as 06/73 versions.
Interestingly, the early 29/70 pistols in 5" used original Swiss barrels, which Mauser had purchased from the Eidgn. Waffenfabrik in Bern.

frankenlugerguy · 07-14-2020, 03:13 PM

Vim,
Thanks, first of all, for the great information you give. Don't mean to be too basic in my question, but I'm in a learning curve here. When you refer to the "06/29 style opening curve", do you mean the rounded top of the breech block on the '06, as opposed to the flat top of the '00/'02 style breech block?

frankenlugerguy · 07-14-2020, 04:16 PM

"Vlim", not "Vim"! Sorry, must be my tired old eyes! Won't happen again.

Vlim · 07-14-2020, 04:22 PM

The shape and placement of the frame ears, where the toggle knobs strike the frame during recoil.

The Swiss decided to finetune it to their ammuntion on the 06/29 model. Mauser initially copied it and found out it gave problems with certain barrel configurations. In the end they fixed it by moving the frame ear surfaces 1mm to the rear.

If you compare a 29/70 frame and a 06/73 frame, the change will become obvious.

mauro · 07-16-2020, 01:30 PM

Hello Joe,
I have checked in the Mauser Ledger and I have found your pistol that is nicely displayed together with all the others (few) 5" Parabellum produced. Actually all the 5" production is tracked in the production book. Believe me your pistol is rare!

I have the production day of your pistol plus other info.

If you are interested in the certification please contact me: mauser.archive@gmail.com

Cheers,
Mauro

frankenlugerguy · 07-16-2020, 04:31 PM

Thanks for clarifying, Vlim. I was way off on that one!

Joe in Colorado · 07-16-2020, 10:56 PM

Thank you all for the great info!

Mauro-yes, we need to talk-do you have dates on all 3 of these 5" pistols: 10 004558, 10 004618, 10 005585?

Vlim, did I understand you to say that some or all of the 5" barrels came from Switzerland? Barrels placed on pistols with Swiss frames like 4558 and 4618 above?

I will start a new thread with more details on the 5" "Last Production", including the 1986 sales receipt from Waffen Walla and the business card of the Mauser Marketing Manager for domestic sales at the time.

Cheers, Joe

mauro · 07-17-2020, 12:58 PM

Dear Joe,
For the 10 004558 everything is available. For the 10 004618 and 10 005585 only partial data.

When convenient to you, send me an email here: mauser.archive@gmail.com

Regards,
Mauro

Joe in Colorado · 07-17-2020, 04:02 PM

Thank you Mauro, I will.

I'll attach a photo of the first certificate you made for me-for number 10 001075-one of the very first production pistols. (For those who haven't heard, production started at 10 001001.)

Pistol 1075 and 5585 above could serve as close to "First and Last" bookends for @20,000 regular production Mauser Parabellums-1970 to 1985.

One last question-do you also have info on 5" pistol 10 004515?

Finally-if anyone has a green Mauser hang tag to sell or trade please let know. (I need one for 5585.)

Cheers, Joe

mauro · 07-18-2020, 01:51 AM

Hello Joe,
Yes the pistols #10.004515 and #10.004558 are both in the same page of the original Mauser production ledger.

Greetings,
Mauro

Joe in Colorado · 07-18-2020, 10:44 AM

Thank you again, Mauro.

Here's why I asked about 10 004515: after I started this post a few days ago I did a Google image search or two-looking for evidence of more regular production .30 pistols with the scarce 5" barrel.

(I had done similar search months earlier looking for another nickel plated Mauser Parabellum (image 00) with zero results.)

Image 01 is a screen shot of one page from the search results-row one shows a 5" but its a commemorative. I saw, in the bottom left corner, what looked liked another regular production 5".

It was linked to Frontier Gallery LLC, a well known dealer in Colorado and a regular at the annual Colorado Gun Collector's Show (cancelled this year due to coronavirus).

Frontier Gallery moved from Denver to my hometown of Fort Collins a few years ago---what a coincidence---that I found another one of these ultra-rare pistols-still for sale-right in my hometown of all places!!!

Due to coronavirus panic buying it took over 2 days to clear the background check, but I took 4515 home last night. The pistol has really nice wood grain on the grips and could hardly be in more pristine condition. (Image 02)

By chance if anyone has what Vlim said is the more common 06/73 with a 5" barrel to spare and wants one with a Swiss frame perhaps we could do a trade.

Best wishes to all, Joe

07-12-2020, 12:03 AM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,091 Thanked 5,180 Times in 1,703 Posts	Nicely done! Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-12-2020, 03:34 PM	#3
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,293 Thanks: 2,712 Thanked 974 Times in 719 Posts	I have to admit, that in my mind, the 5" bbl is the perfect length for a Luger. I have a "Heinz 57" Luger with a 5" bbl. and it is my favorite shooter. Thanx for the photos!! __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

07-14-2020, 03:13 PM	#6
frankenlugerguy User Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: The Mountains of Western North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 563 Thanked 33 Times in 21 Posts	Vim, Thanks, first of all, for the great information you give. Don't mean to be too basic in my question, but I'm in a learning curve here. When you refer to the "06/29 style opening curve", do you mean the rounded top of the breech block on the '06, as opposed to the flat top of the '00/'02 style breech block? __________________ Cursum Perficio

07-14-2020, 04:16 PM	#7
frankenlugerguy User Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: The Mountains of Western North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 563 Thanked 33 Times in 21 Posts	"Vlim", not "Vim"! Sorry, must be my tired old eyes! Won't happen again. __________________ Cursum Perficio

07-16-2020, 01:30 PM	#9
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Joe, I have checked in the Mauser Ledger and I have found your pistol that is nicely displayed together with all the others (few) 5" Parabellum produced. Actually all the 5" production is tracked in the production book. Believe me your pistol is rare! I have the production day of your pistol plus other info. If you are interested in the certification please contact me: mauser.archive@gmail.com Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

07-11-2020, 11:06 PM	#1
Joe in Colorado User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 71 Thanks: 103 Thanked 136 Times in 38 Posts	Mauser Parabellum pistols .30 cal 5" barrels Here's a few quick photos of Mauser Parabellum pistols with the scarce 5 inch (12 CM) barrel length. Photo 01 shows the sure fire way to identify the 5" barrel variation-it doesn't fit the styrofoam box! Notice the crude chunk torn out between the 4" and 6" front sight locations. Photo 02 shows this pistol next to a Model 29. I would say this pistol-10 004558-is as close as Mauser ever came to duplicating the M29. Photo 03-moving up 50 numbers to 10 004618-is the same type except with P08 style safety. Shown next to regular 6" length 06/73. Photo 04 shows a 5" "Last Production" variation made in 1985 on it's related page (459) in "The Parabellum is Back", our must-have reference book. Photo 05 shows this pistol with a 1900 AE. I could call this a "First and Last" Luger photo-spanning from @1902 to 1985. Kind of ironic the "Last Production" Luger harps back to the first model with the 1900 style dished toggle. Photo 06 is just the other side of these two pistols. Hope you enjoy these, best wishes, Joe Last edited by Joe in Colorado; 07-11-2020 at 11:09 PM. Reason: spelling correction

07-12-2020, 05:37 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Initially, Mauser had no plans to bring out a 5" version. The 4" and 6" were planned first, with the 4" 7,65 version giving problems with the 06/29 style opening curve, that explains why most early 29/70 pistols were 6". Then Mauser got the idea to seek permission from the Swiss army to get the 5" Mauser Parabellum officially recognized as a Swiss Ordnance pistol (so it could legally be used by Swiss army personnel for shooting). This was denied by the Swiss army, stating that the Mauser Parabellum could only be used as a 'free pistol' in official shooting matches, but not as a 'service pistol'. Basically, this decision killed a large market for the 5" version. In the end only a couple of hundred 5" versions were made, the majority as 06/73 versions. Interestingly, the early 29/70 pistols in 5" used original Swiss barrels, which Mauser had purchased from the Eidgn. Waffenfabrik in Bern.

07-14-2020, 04:22 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	The shape and placement of the frame ears, where the toggle knobs strike the frame during recoil. The Swiss decided to finetune it to their ammuntion on the 06/29 model. Mauser initially copied it and found out it gave problems with certain barrel configurations. In the end they fixed it by moving the frame ear surfaces 1mm to the rear. If you compare a 29/70 frame and a 06/73 frame, the change will become obvious.

07-16-2020, 04:31 PM	#10
frankenlugerguy User Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: The Mountains of Western North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 563 Thanked 33 Times in 21 Posts	Thanks for clarifying, Vlim. I was way off on that one! __________________ Cursum Perficio

07-16-2020, 10:56 PM	#11
Joe in Colorado User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 71 Thanks: 103 Thanked 136 Times in 38 Posts	Thank you all for the great info! Mauro-yes, we need to talk-do you have dates on all 3 of these 5" pistols: 10 004558, 10 004618, 10 005585? Vlim, did I understand you to say that some or all of the 5" barrels came from Switzerland? Barrels placed on pistols with Swiss frames like 4558 and 4618 above? I will start a new thread with more details on the 5" "Last Production", including the 1986 sales receipt from Waffen Walla and the business card of the Mauser Marketing Manager for domestic sales at the time. Cheers, Joe Attached Images

07-17-2020, 12:58 PM	#12
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Dear Joe, For the 10 004558 everything is available. For the 10 004618 and 10 005585 only partial data. When convenient to you, send me an email here: mauser.archive@gmail.com Regards, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

07-17-2020, 04:02 PM	#13
Joe in Colorado User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 71 Thanks: 103 Thanked 136 Times in 38 Posts	Thank you Mauro, I will. I'll attach a photo of the first certificate you made for me-for number 10 001075-one of the very first production pistols. (For those who haven't heard, production started at 10 001001.) Pistol 1075 and 5585 above could serve as close to "First and Last" bookends for @20,000 regular production Mauser Parabellums-1970 to 1985. One last question-do you also have info on 5" pistol 10 004515? Finally-if anyone has a green Mauser hang tag to sell or trade please let know. (I need one for 5585.) Cheers, Joe Attached Thumbnails

07-18-2020, 01:51 AM	#14
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Joe, Yes the pistols #10.004515 and #10.004558 are both in the same page of the original Mauser production ledger. Greetings, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

07-18-2020, 10:44 AM	#15
Joe in Colorado User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 71 Thanks: 103 Thanked 136 Times in 38 Posts	Thank you again, Mauro. Here's why I asked about 10 004515: after I started this post a few days ago I did a Google image search or two-looking for evidence of more regular production .30 pistols with the scarce 5" barrel. (I had done similar search months earlier looking for another nickel plated Mauser Parabellum (image 00) with zero results.) Image 01 is a screen shot of one page from the search results-row one shows a 5" but its a commemorative. I saw, in the bottom left corner, what looked liked another regular production 5". It was linked to Frontier Gallery LLC, a well known dealer in Colorado and a regular at the annual Colorado Gun Collector's Show (cancelled this year due to coronavirus). Frontier Gallery moved from Denver to my hometown of Fort Collins a few years ago---what a coincidence---that I found another one of these ultra-rare pistols-still for sale-right in my hometown of all places!!! Due to coronavirus panic buying it took over 2 days to clear the background check, but I took 4515 home last night. The pistol has really nice wood grain on the grips and could hardly be in more pristine condition. (Image 02) By chance if anyone has what Vlim said is the more common 06/73 with a 5" barrel to spare and wants one with a Swiss frame perhaps we could do a trade. Best wishes to all, Joe Attached Thumbnails