Extraction & Ejection issues!

[G.T.]

Some where in this forum is a thread about why the extracted cases hit on the receiver side rails? Someone gave an excellent reason for the occurrence, and correction for the problem?..............Does anyone know who, what, where, why..... etc....... let me know, best to all, til...lat'r....GT....

[kurusu]

Could this be it?


http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=34683

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kurusu

Could this be it?


http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=34683

Originally Posted by Vlim

Normally speaking, the extractor works good enough to extract the spent case from the chamber and throw it upwards. When the extractor spring is somewhat weakened, the case will indeed bounce off the receiver rail during extraction, leaving a small v-shaped dent in the case mouth.

I had a P.08 that had difficulty extracting and it would mostly throw the spent cases in my face or on my head. Replaced the extractor spring and the cases happily landed on top of the cealing of the shooting stand

It seems that most of my handguns throw the spent (and hot!) cases in my face...but if I can find a 'new' extractor spring I will try this out...

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

It seems that most of my handguns throw the spent (and hot!) cases in my face...but if I can find a 'new' extractor spring I will try this out...

Sorry but you're most likely the culprit. This generally happens when one relaxes the wrist at the moment the pistol goes bang (results generally in a hit 4inches above the intended point of impact). Been there, done that.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kurusu

Sorry but you're most likely the culprit.

Sorry, but I'm aware of the occurrence and 'lock' my arms.

Don't try to teach your grandpa how to spit...

[G.T.]

Hi Rich, Thanks! I think that is it? I'm having some extraction issues with drum mags?? Works fine with regular mags, flings the empties out! But shows every sign of a weak extractor spring with the drums?.... Smokestack and stovepipe jams? Not all the time, Very random?... Any thoughts guys? Two test units are byf 42 top halfs..... ... best to all, til...lat'r....GT
BTW, only way I could hold it any stiffer would be to weld my butt to the bench!!!!!!

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Sorry, but I'm aware of the occurrence and 'lock' my arms.

Don't try to teach your grandpa how to spit...

I was thinking one arm shooting.

And you ain't old enough to be my pa. Let alone my grandpa.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kurusu

And you ain't old enough to be my pa. Let alone my grandpa.

I turn 66 next month. I love chocolate [hint].

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi Rich, Thanks! I think that is it?

Gerry, that was from Gerben. I don't have a 'new' spring or I would try it. I hate wearing a hat indoors (thank you Gerben!).

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I turn 66 next month. I love chocolate [hint].

Father at the age of 8. Must be some kind of a record.

PS. Picture in my avatar is 15 year old.

[4 Scale]

Hi G.T., here is one explanation. If you go to "Part V" (next-to-last page) of this somewhat long treatise, it discusses ejection and says case strikes on the receiver are typical for the Luger action. It does not mention a correction. Since reading this a few months ago I inspect spent cases from time to time and all are oval suggesting to me a receiver strike on ejection. The pistols are successfully ejecting so I've never investigated correcting it. Whether this is authoritative or not I don't know, but is is a fun read.

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-c...unFacts%29.pdf

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kurusu

PS. Picture in my avatar is 15 year old.

Indiana Jones had a mustache??? I never noticed...

[ithacaartist]

My stainless P.08 9mm was doing that, and how! Whatever it was hitting was actually digging up a burr on one leg of the V. I indexed a few rounds with a sharpie and determined they were hitting on the left side of the upper. I looked at the extractor and its claws looked lop-sided, the left one was lower.

The extractor itself is like an real P.08, but without the little ears on the side. I'd heard their specs were, ahem, a little lax, and the extractor as a whole wasn't strictly symmetrical; it seemed to move OK, nonetheless. I dressed the left claw back a bit with a needle file, reassembled, and it did better--leaving mostly a shiny V, and no more burr.

The fact that I was able to file it back disturbs me, too, because it means the part is not very hard. It's shaped like a new model extractor, but without the ears. (I should probably see if a spare repro is close enough to fit after its ears were removed.) It seemed to make sense that the low-side claw would pull the case to that side on the way out.

Another thing I thought about was how the tip of the ejector encounters the shell. When observing that the rim is held in the well on the breech face at top dead center, it would follow that a poke at the exact opposite side of the rim would rotate the round straight up. Now, if the poke were on the lower, right edge of the rim, it seems to me that the round would similarly rotate up, but also be biased to the side away from the poke. This might explain the reputation for banging against the left side, as well?

Replacing the extractor spring sounds helpful, I might try that, to see what difference it makes.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I turn 66 next month. I love chocolate [hint].

Father at the age of 8. Must be some kind of a record.

Make that at age of 7. I just realized your are not 66 yet.

Indiana Jones? You flatter me.

But I do have a S & W 1917.

[alanint]

The S&W 1917 was one of many pistols used in the movie. It is amazing how much time and effort some people will apply to these film details:

http://www.indygear.com/igguns.html

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by alanint

The S&W 1917 was one of many pistols used in the movie. It is amazing how much time and effort some people will apply to these film details:

http://www.indygear.com/igguns.html

Fascinating.

I also think I remember a Remington 1875 in the hands of one of the villains in the open sequences of "Raiders"

Got an Uberti made replica of one of those.

[kurusu]

I also get the infamous v shaped indent, about 10 out of each 100 fired. Of those, I only get about 2 to none so badly marked that I just decide to toss them.
But one thing I noticed, sometimes, generally on the very last round of the clip (holdopen removed), the spent case gets caught between the chamber and the closing breech with the mouth facing rewards. Those cases have invariably a v dent so bad that I always have to toss them.
Has this happened to any of you? And were they already dented from hitting the frame or was the closing breech that dented them?

What say you?

[G.T.]

Hi Mario, I have noticed the difference both on last round, or no clip at all! But I don't know why it is happening?........... There are definite differences in ejection when loaded rounds are not beneath the spent case?... Your jam sounds the same as my jams? I would suspect in my case with the drums, the loaded round next, is not snapping up fast enough when the breechblock retracts?.... Thank you for your input, it helps to hear of the abnormalities... Gets the thought process going!... .. Best to you, til...lat'r....GT....

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi Mario, I have noticed the difference both on last round, or no clip at all! But I don't know why it is happening?........... There are definite differences in ejection when loaded rounds are not beneath the spent case?... Your jam sounds the same as my jams? I would suspect in my case with the drums, the loaded round next, is not snapping up fast enough when the breechblock retracts?.... Thank you for your input, it helps to hear of the abnormalities... Gets the thought process going!... .. Best to you, til...lat'r....GT....

The problem with the fliped cased on the last round can hardly be called a jam because it won’t happen (at least as a pattern) with the holdopen in place and a magazine inserted.
That however makes me think that the upward pressure of the next round in the magazine may be a part on the correct feeding/ejecting cycle. Possibly the drag caused by the following round in the magazine may help delay the rearward movement of the breech (the main spring having very little tension at the beginning of the motion) long enough for the spent case to get well clear away.
Could very well be the reason why the 1908 rifle board who deemed the holdopen unnecessary eventually changed their mind.
I’m not familiar with the snail magazine, never got the opportunity to examine one, but I’m under the impression that they were problematic from the get go.

[rhuff]

GT,

Some years back I purchased a couple of C-Mag drum magazines that were new production. Each of them came with a tube of graphite powder to use to lubricate the mechanism(springs and follower). I just wonder it that could help your situation out?