Simson Luger found at a gun show

pdstout · 08-18-2014, 10:41 PM

Guys I am new to the forum, but I have had several Lugers and P38s. I have never had a Simson. Here are a few pics. I took them with my cell phone. Any information would be great.
Thanks P. Stout

Edward Tinker · 08-18-2014, 11:40 PM

Same questions I sent you :-)

For others, I would want to know, full sn on grips? Sn on all parts? Eagle 6 or 33 on all small parts?

Stock lug have eagle 6's?

Sn?

Any markings on grip straps?

pdstout · 08-18-2014, 11:54 PM

more pics. What is its MFG date?

mrerick · 08-19-2014, 12:10 PM

Hi Pete and welcome to the forum.

You'll need to share better pictures including all markings and numbers to learn much about this Simson. Take your pictures in natural shaded light outdoors and shut off the flash. Use the closeup setting on the camera and a tripod (and the self timer) to eliminate camera shake. Post pictures with about 1024 pixels across so that the fine detail is visible.

Stabilize the corrosion and use oiled fine steel wool to remove the active red oxide.

Mfg from 1925 to 1930 there were about 11,500 of these made.

Ed is the international expert on Simson Lugers and has written a very good reference book on them. You can help him by sharing as much detail as possible about your find.

Marc

Sergio Natali · 08-19-2014, 12:28 PM

Hi Pete, I think you've come to he right place to ask about your gun; here we are lucky to have Edward Tinker who is probably one of the more expert people about Simson Lugers.

Welcome to our forums.

Sergio

Edward Tinker · 08-19-2014, 12:47 PM

it actually looks nicer in the large pics and with a bit more light he emailed me

I would guess made about 1929 - but that is a guess since we don't have records of what was produced. Heck, it has occurred to me and others that maybe the first 10k were made in the first couple of years and then the rest of them (many police) were made over the late 20's and early 30's.

ed

sheepherder · 08-19-2014, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

...we are lucky to have Edward Tinker who is probably one of the more expert people about Simson Lugers.

I did not know that. I do have a question pertaining to Simson Lugers; maybe Ed can answer...

I've seen many Lugers here, at Still's, and on GB that have ground-down toggles, where the mfg graphic/text would be. Could this have been done 'on order' by the Nazis, since the Simson firm was Jewish owned??? Would leftover Simson toggles delivered to Krieghoff (or was it Mauser?) with the manufacturing machinery have the Simson name ground off???

Edward Tinker · 08-19-2014, 04:10 PM

Possible but unlikely - there were too many parts around

1. some of the 'blank' toggles were just never marked - some people call these sneaks, and although I disagreed with this term for a long time, it is probably accurate, just not for the old time reasons
2. Blank toggles were likely laying around after the war - but I would imagine lots of marked ones (WW1 or WW2) were re-used - I do not know the order of marking or accepting - would guess marking and then acceptance
3. It is possible that they could grind off the name, but then restamping seems unlikely. That said, Erfurt parts by the thousands were delivered to Simson and Simson parts, but the less thousands were delivered to Krieghoff - I do not think Krieg parts went to Mauser and as both were still making lugers on a limited basis to the same time period
4. As a side note on Simson toggles, there is a period of time where the markings on the toggle were very light, Bill guessed that it was a old die (or two) - and it may have to do with hardness?

pdstout · 08-19-2014, 09:34 PM

WOW!!! This site is awsome! The information is much more than I expected. I took a few more pitcures. I tried a little steel wool and light oil. I guess I will just leave it alone.
Thanks, Guys! Pete

Edward Tinker · 08-19-2014, 09:50 PM

yes, it looks very good

the stock lug marking I like to see, as everyone that I see without it I believe is a refurb

08-18-2014, 10:41 PM	#1
pdstout User Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Simson Luger found at a gun show Guys I am new to the forum, but I have had several Lugers and P38s. I have never had a Simson. Here are a few pics. I took them with my cell phone. Any information would be great. Thanks P. Stout Attached Thumbnails

08-18-2014, 11:40 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Same questions I sent you :-) For others, I would want to know, full sn on grips? Sn on all parts? Eagle 6 or 33 on all small parts? Stock lug have eagle 6's? Sn? Any markings on grip straps? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-18-2014, 11:54 PM	#3
pdstout User Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more pics more pics. What is its MFG date? Attached Images

08-19-2014, 12:10 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi Pete and welcome to the forum. You'll need to share better pictures including all markings and numbers to learn much about this Simson. Take your pictures in natural shaded light outdoors and shut off the flash. Use the closeup setting on the camera and a tripod (and the self timer) to eliminate camera shake. Post pictures with about 1024 pixels across so that the fine detail is visible. Stabilize the corrosion and use oiled fine steel wool to remove the active red oxide. Mfg from 1925 to 1930 there were about 11,500 of these made. Ed is the international expert on Simson Lugers and has written a very good reference book on them. You can help him by sharing as much detail as possible about your find. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-19-2014, 12:28 PM	#5
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Hi Pete, I think you've come to he right place to ask about your gun; here we are lucky to have Edward Tinker who is probably one of the more expert people about Simson Lugers. Welcome to our forums. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

08-19-2014, 12:47 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	it actually looks nicer in the large pics and with a bit more light he emailed me I would guess made about 1929 - but that is a guess since we don't have records of what was produced. Heck, it has occurred to me and others that maybe the first 10k were made in the first couple of years and then the rest of them (many police) were made over the late 20's and early 30's. ed

08-19-2014, 04:10 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Possible but unlikely - there were too many parts around 1. some of the 'blank' toggles were just never marked - some people call these sneaks, and although I disagreed with this term for a long time, it is probably accurate, just not for the old time reasons 2. Blank toggles were likely laying around after the war - but I would imagine lots of marked ones (WW1 or WW2) were re-used - I do not know the order of marking or accepting - would guess marking and then acceptance 3. It is possible that they could grind off the name, but then restamping seems unlikely. That said, Erfurt parts by the thousands were delivered to Simson and Simson parts, but the less thousands were delivered to Krieghoff - I do not think Krieg parts went to Mauser and as both were still making lugers on a limited basis to the same time period 4. As a side note on Simson toggles, there is a period of time where the markings on the toggle were very light, Bill guessed that it was a old die (or two) - and it may have to do with hardness? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-19-2014, 09:34 PM	#9
pdstout User Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	WOW!!! This site is awsome! The information is much more than I expected. I took a few more pitcures. I tried a little steel wool and light oil. I guess I will just leave it alone. Thanks, Guys! Pete Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

08-19-2014, 09:50 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	yes, it looks very good the stock lug marking I like to see, as everyone that I see without it I believe is a refurb