Value estimate needed on S/42....

artgsc · 03-03-2010, 10:11 AM

Retired friend has asked me to help him sell his Luger and holster which has been in his closet for over 40 years. Overall the gun is in great mechanical shape with perfect bore but the finish is thin or almost completely gone in some areas. Would like to get opinions as to what would be a fair price to ask for the gun and holster. Hopefully the 15 pictures posted here pretty much tell the story but please do let me know any questions or what additional information might be useful. Also, a link is posted below for access to larger pics and I can also e-mail larger pictures if needed. Thank you!!! Art G. artgsc@aol.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3490101...7623547740454/

DavidJayUden · 03-03-2010, 10:51 AM

I'm apparently not smart enough to blow up the photos for a close-up, but with the surface deterioration, mis-matching numbers, and assuming that the holster is correct and average or better condition, I'd guess around $700. The gun alone is around $500.
My $.02.
dju

artgsc · 03-03-2010, 10:57 AM

Here is the link to bigger pics....... Thanks! Art G.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3490101...7623547740454/

alanint · 03-03-2010, 11:06 AM

It looks like schrapnel damage to the toggle area....

artgsc · 03-03-2010, 12:00 PM

You are correct that cosmetic damage exists on the toggle area...... Art G.

alanint · 03-03-2010, 12:09 PM

Is there a tool in the small pouch on the holsters lid? A tool with rare markings could bring additional monies to a sale.

artgsc · 03-03-2010, 12:12 PM

Just checked and there is no tool in the pouch..... Art G.

artgsc · 03-03-2010, 05:08 PM

As the grips are plastic rather than wood they most likely are replacements? Art G.

Frank · 03-03-2010, 06:45 PM

Art, if the grips are legit WWII Bakelite Material, in good condition, could be sold for something like $250. The magazine is worth around $100. The holster is also a plus. If the pistol is mechanically sound, the total could approach $1000.

artgsc · 03-03-2010, 08:43 PM

Would bakelite grips be correct for this gun? Also the frame is serialed 127 with what I guess is a "t" right below it (see pic). So, the frame doesn't match the serial of the upper but is it still a Mauser frame? Thanks! Art G. artgsc@aol.com

saab-bob · 03-03-2010, 10:52 PM

Hi Art
I am a newbie around here,but I think I help with your questions.
The frame is a Mauser frame,as it has the Mauser bulge on the back of the frame. Since it is marked P08 on the left side it was made after 1941. This is the so called "Black Widow" type of luger. The black Bakelite grips could be original to the gun,however they where never numbered. Since the magazine is the extruded type,it is a correct type. The holster is also the correct later type with the P08 marking as well.
So you have a later Mauser frame attached to a earlier Mauser barrel and toggle train. I think the possible battle damage is interesting.

It is amazing how much knowledge you can glean from the gents on this forum.

Bob

artgsc · 03-04-2010, 06:59 AM

Thank you to all for the info posted so far! Could anyone tell me what the manufacture date is of the frame? ( which is serialed 127) Thanks again! Art G.

Frank · 03-04-2010, 07:17 AM

Hi Art, your frame is from a 41 byf Luger. It is not appropiate for black Bakelite grips, IMO. Serial Number 127t was completed about May 1941.

Norme · 03-04-2010, 08:17 AM

Hi Frank, If my memory serves me correctly (I'm too lazy to consult TRL), about 20% of 41 byf's had bakelite grips, as does my r block gun. Regards, Norm

artgsc · 03-04-2010, 08:20 AM

Thank you for the info! Art G.

Frank · 03-04-2010, 12:05 PM

Norm, in spite of what TRL says, there is a school of collectors (including me) that believes the Bakelite Grips were authorized at the same time as the black plastic magazine bottoms. This occurred in July (I think July 1, 1941). Turns out that this corresponds with the end of the serialized magazine bottoms, that is at the end of the U-Block.

Others believe that the Bakelite Grips were authorized for use in 1940.

The difficulty about the originality of such grips is difficult to establish. Were these grips on earlier lugers added by armorers or post war? Tough to say.

03-03-2010, 10:11 AM	#1
artgsc User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Value estimate needed on S/42.... Retired friend has asked me to help him sell his Luger and holster which has been in his closet for over 40 years. Overall the gun is in great mechanical shape with perfect bore but the finish is thin or almost completely gone in some areas. Would like to get opinions as to what would be a fair price to ask for the gun and holster. Hopefully the 15 pictures posted here pretty much tell the story but please do let me know any questions or what additional information might be useful. Also, a link is posted below for access to larger pics and I can also e-mail larger pictures if needed. Thank you!!! Art G. artgsc@aol.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/3490101...7623547740454/ Last edited by artgsc; 03-03-2010 at 11:58 AM.

03-03-2010, 10:57 AM	#3
artgsc User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is the link to bigger pics....... Thanks! Art G. http://www.flickr.com/photos/3490101...7623547740454/ Last edited by artgsc; 03-03-2010 at 11:55 AM.

03-03-2010, 10:52 PM	#11
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Art I am a newbie around here,but I think I help with your questions. The frame is a Mauser frame,as it has the Mauser bulge on the back of the frame. Since it is marked P08 on the left side it was made after 1941. This is the so called "Black Widow" type of luger. The black Bakelite grips could be original to the gun,however they where never numbered. Since the magazine is the extruded type,it is a correct type. The holster is also the correct later type with the P08 marking as well. So you have a later Mauser frame attached to a earlier Mauser barrel and toggle train. I think the possible battle damage is interesting. It is amazing how much knowledge you can glean from the gents on this forum. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

03-04-2010, 08:17 AM	#14
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hi Frank, If my memory serves me correctly (I'm too lazy to consult TRL), about 20% of 41 byf's had bakelite grips, as does my r block gun. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

03-04-2010, 08:20 AM	#15
artgsc User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for the info! Art G. Last edited by artgsc; 03-04-2010 at 11:29 AM.

03-03-2010, 10:51 AM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm apparently not smart enough to blow up the photos for a close-up, but with the surface deterioration, mis-matching numbers, and assuming that the holster is correct and average or better condition, I'd guess around $700. The gun alone is around $500. My $.02. dju

03-03-2010, 11:06 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It looks like schrapnel damage to the toggle area....

03-03-2010, 12:00 PM	#5
artgsc User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You are correct that cosmetic damage exists on the toggle area...... Art G.

03-03-2010, 12:09 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Is there a tool in the small pouch on the holsters lid? A tool with rare markings could bring additional monies to a sale.

03-03-2010, 12:12 PM	#7
artgsc User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just checked and there is no tool in the pouch..... Art G.

03-03-2010, 05:08 PM	#8
artgsc User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As the grips are plastic rather than wood they most likely are replacements? Art G.

03-03-2010, 06:45 PM	#9
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Art, if the grips are legit WWII Bakelite Material, in good condition, could be sold for something like $250. The magazine is worth around $100. The holster is also a plus. If the pistol is mechanically sound, the total could approach $1000.

03-03-2010, 08:43 PM	#10
artgsc User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Would bakelite grips be correct for this gun? Also the frame is serialed 127 with what I guess is a "t" right below it (see pic). So, the frame doesn't match the serial of the upper but is it still a Mauser frame? Thanks! Art G. artgsc@aol.com

03-04-2010, 06:59 AM	#12
artgsc User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you to all for the info posted so far! Could anyone tell me what the manufacture date is of the frame? ( which is serialed 127) Thanks again! Art G.

03-04-2010, 07:17 AM	#13
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Art, your frame is from a 41 byf Luger. It is not appropiate for black Bakelite grips, IMO. Serial Number 127t was completed about May 1941.

03-04-2010, 12:05 PM	#16
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Norm, in spite of what TRL says, there is a school of collectors (including me) that believes the Bakelite Grips were authorized at the same time as the black plastic magazine bottoms. This occurred in July (I think July 1, 1941). Turns out that this corresponds with the end of the serialized magazine bottoms, that is at the end of the U-Block. Others believe that the Bakelite Grips were authorized for use in 1940. The difficulty about the originality of such grips is difficult to establish. Were these grips on earlier lugers added by armorers or post war? Tough to say.