Obscenely heavy trigger on 1912 P08, "two fingers" heavy

JiveTurkey · 06-22-2016, 10:15 PM

Howdy folks. I don't post as much as I should on here. I added another P08 to the herd and have encountered a new issue. All the other Lugers in my collection have very pleasant triggers. This new (to me) 1912 has an overly heavy trigger (think Nagant DA revolver pull heavy.) I have not tried to fire it yet, although I shoot most of my other ones. I say "most" because one of them has every part matching, has never been refinished and is a glorious bringback from WW1.
So what's going on with this 1912. It looks as if it might have been refinished and the mag is non matching, but overall it's a nice pistol with a phenomenal original barrel. I have cycled it with some snap caps and it cycles well. I am eager to shoot it but would like to get the trigger pull sorted first. Apologies if this is a stupid query, but I searched and didn't find anything on this problemo.
Thanks in advance,
Dom

Dwight Gruber · 06-22-2016, 11:43 PM

Does the trigger "take up" in the usual way, but require extreme force at the end of its travel? I once had a shooting-condition navy (all matching) which had a trigger travel so long that it pulled all the way to the frame and required extreme tension at that point before it would release the sear.

--Dwight

Ron Wood · 06-23-2016, 12:28 AM

I think that Dwight has identified the problem...the trigger/transfer lever/sear bar geometry is not correct and you have to squeeze the trigger to its limits to release the striker.
Ron

JiveTurkey · 06-23-2016, 01:03 AM

What's the best medicine for the afflicted bars? That's one area I've not had to fiddle with before. I'm reasonably competent mechanically.

mrerick · 06-23-2016, 01:45 AM

It's possible that a part in the overall trigger linkage is not in the correct position, or that it as been modified to the point that it no longer is large enough to work.

First, I would take off the trigger plate and see what resistance you encounter operating the sear bar by hand (pushing it in in front to rotate and release the sear. If it's smooth and crisp, the sear to firing pin linkage is probably ok. Observe how much movement is required to release the sear.

Look at the surfaces and see if anyone has modified them, grinding them down.

Next, I would make sure that the trigger plate fits solidly against the side of the receiver. Make sure that there is no play when the locking lug is in position. Check this by operating the trigger and watching to see if the plate moves in and out. If it is loose, the plate or locking lug was probably damaged in some way.

Finally look at the trigger bar in the trigger plate. Look at the surfaces to see if they have been reduced to the point of becoming too small to press the sear bar properly. Compare the transfer bar to the ones in your other Lugers...

This may help you find what parts are contributing to the problem.

Eugen · 06-23-2016, 04:51 AM

Ok, I am new here, but Dom I believe you have a Luger with the Dusseldorf experimental safety mod. That is the ultra rare and highly prized models with the 31lb trigger pulls; no unintended discharges with those puppies!

Dom, I am just kidding of course, and attempting to substitute bit of humor for my lack of being able to contribute any technical advice. I do believe you have your answers in the posts from folks above. I hope their suggestions enable to resolve your trigger problem. Keep us updated.

DonVoigt · 06-23-2016, 06:14 AM

Yes, sounds like the trigger lever angle is too shallow.
Some times they are such a bad "fit" they will not fire the piece at all.

In my experience the lever is too brittle to bend, so the only choice is a new/different one;
BUT, there is no guarantee that any given lever will solve the problem.

This is one problem where I think you would be better off to send the luger to a good mechanic,
like "lugerdoc" to fix it- he will have several levers to choose from.

mrerick · 06-23-2016, 06:20 AM

In general, the parts in the trigger linkage are hardened, and will break before bending. There are a couple points that can be formed, but this takes some background.

Try and diagnose the problem step by step first.

JiveTurkey · 06-23-2016, 09:47 AM

Excellent advice gentlemen, I will do some diagnostic work today, thankfully I have a few other Lugers I can use for comparison and I fix old Mercedes so I understand it's important not to attempt any repairs until the issue is diagnosed correctly. Will report back later.

Lugerdoc · 06-23-2016, 10:52 AM

Dom, As mentioned above, you most likely have too much overlap between the trigger bar and the striker and perhaps too stiff a flat trigger bar spring. Either of these will cause a hard trigger pull, also too stiff a striker spring. Ajustments or replacement of the trigger lever can possibly give you a quicker striker release, but would not give you a lighter trigger pull. i can inspect your luger, diagnose any problems and test fire for $75 plus $25 insured priority return S&H. At that point I should be able to give you a firm quote on parts &/or labor required to correct any problems. Tom

JiveTurkey · 06-23-2016, 12:52 PM

I seem to have found the problem. Should have spotted it earlier.
Note, I propped the piece up in this position for a better photo, it is not stuck there.

What's the consensus, sheared off or ground down by some bubba "gunsmith" (I'ma fix me up this gnat-see gun right good) or stuck in the depressed position? I'm betting sheared/ground down. Looks like a tiny pin needs to be punched out before it can be replaced. On the plus side the firing pin is original!

DonVoigt · 06-23-2016, 01:16 PM

Stuck,
I don't think you could shear that pin in use. It is solid and the hole and spring where it moves either rusted or filled with dried out lube.

Yes, you do have to push out the small pin; a paper clip will usually do it- but maybe not on yours!

Ron Wood · 06-23-2016, 01:58 PM

Soak the sear bar in solvent to dissolve old dried grease and I'll bet the disconnect will pop right out (at least I hope so

)
Ron

JiveTurkey · 06-23-2016, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Soak the sear bar in solvent to dissolve old dried grease and I'll bet the disconnect will pop right out (at least I hope so

)
Ron

Hoppes 9 won't hurt the finish right? It's what I plan to use as long as you guys give me the green light.

Ron Wood · 06-23-2016, 02:19 PM

Hoppes certainly will not hurt the finish as well as mineral spirits (paint thinner) or acetone will not hurt the finish. Go go for it, you may very well solve your problem with no expense! As you soak the part attempt to move the disconnect pin to work it loose. Good luck!
Ron

Olle · 06-23-2016, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiveTurkey

Hoppes 9 won't hurt the finish right? It's what I plan to use as long as you guys give me the green light.

You need to use a penetrating oil (like Kroil or WD-40). Just soak it good, tap it against the workbench and it should hopefully pop right out. Once it's loose you may want to disassemble it for a clean/lube job, and you do that by pushing out that little pin. Most punch sets won't have a punch small enough, but it can usually be pushed out with just a piece of wire.

JiveTurkey · 06-23-2016, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

You need to use a penetrating oil (like Kroil or WD-40). Just soak it good, tap it against the workbench and it should hopefully pop right out. Once it's loose you may want to disassemble it for a clean/lube job, and you do that by pushing out that little pin. Most punch sets won't have a punch small enough, but it can usually be pushed out with just a piece of wire.

I'm planning some solvent soak first to dissolve the crud, and then an oil soak to hopefully free it up.

Olle · 06-23-2016, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiveTurkey

I'm planning some solvent soak first to dissolve the crud, and then an oil soak to hopefully free it up.

Kerosene works well for this. If you're lucky, that will be all it takes to get the plunger to come loose again.

JiveTurkey · 06-23-2016, 09:27 PM

I let the part soak all day in Hoppes #9, several light taps with a brass hammer and some other non marring implements yielded nothing, no movement whatsoever. Soaking now in penetrating oil, will report back tomorrow.

Edward Tinker · 06-23-2016, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugen

Ok, I am new here, but Dom I believe you have a Luger with the Dusseldorf experimental safety mod. That is the ultra rare and highly prized models with the 31lb trigger pulls; no unintended discharges with those puppies!

....

I can not give any good technical advice, if its a shooter, I swap out parts - as an example of some parts working and some not - i was out shooting with Jerry Burney and could not get one to shoot, swapped a couple of sideplates, nothing.

At home I tried another sideplate and it worked fine. I guess thats why they always say that many parts are 'hand-fitted'.

06-22-2016, 10:15 PM	#1
JiveTurkey User Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 18 Thanks: 7 Thanked 29 Times in 6 Posts	Obscenely heavy trigger on 1912 P08, "two fingers" heavy Howdy folks. I don't post as much as I should on here. I added another P08 to the herd and have encountered a new issue. All the other Lugers in my collection have very pleasant triggers. This new (to me) 1912 has an overly heavy trigger (think Nagant DA revolver pull heavy.) I have not tried to fire it yet, although I shoot most of my other ones. I say "most" because one of them has every part matching, has never been refinished and is a glorious bringback from WW1. So what's going on with this 1912. It looks as if it might have been refinished and the mag is non matching, but overall it's a nice pistol with a phenomenal original barrel. I have cycled it with some snap caps and it cycles well. I am eager to shoot it but would like to get the trigger pull sorted first. Apologies if this is a stupid query, but I searched and didn't find anything on this problemo. Thanks in advance, Dom

06-23-2016, 12:28 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	I think that Dwight has identified the problem...the trigger/transfer lever/sear bar geometry is not correct and you have to squeeze the trigger to its limits to release the striker. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-23-2016, 01:45 AM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	It's possible that a part in the overall trigger linkage is not in the correct position, or that it as been modified to the point that it no longer is large enough to work. First, I would take off the trigger plate and see what resistance you encounter operating the sear bar by hand (pushing it in in front to rotate and release the sear. If it's smooth and crisp, the sear to firing pin linkage is probably ok. Observe how much movement is required to release the sear. Look at the surfaces and see if anyone has modified them, grinding them down. Next, I would make sure that the trigger plate fits solidly against the side of the receiver. Make sure that there is no play when the locking lug is in position. Check this by operating the trigger and watching to see if the plate moves in and out. If it is loose, the plate or locking lug was probably damaged in some way. Finally look at the trigger bar in the trigger plate. Look at the surfaces to see if they have been reduced to the point of becoming too small to press the sear bar properly. Compare the transfer bar to the ones in your other Lugers... This may help you find what parts are contributing to the problem. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-23-2016, 04:51 AM	#6
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 768 Thanks: 370 Thanked 602 Times in 320 Posts	Ok, I am new here, but Dom I believe you have a Luger with the Dusseldorf experimental safety mod. That is the ultra rare and highly prized models with the 31lb trigger pulls; no unintended discharges with those puppies! Dom, I am just kidding of course, and attempting to substitute bit of humor for my lack of being able to contribute any technical advice. I do believe you have your answers in the posts from folks above. I hope their suggestions enable to resolve your trigger problem. Keep us updated. __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

06-23-2016, 06:14 AM	#7
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Yes, sounds like the trigger lever angle is too shallow. Some times they are such a bad "fit" they will not fire the piece at all. In my experience the lever is too brittle to bend, so the only choice is a new/different one; BUT, there is no guarantee that any given lever will solve the problem. This is one problem where I think you would be better off to send the luger to a good mechanic, like "lugerdoc" to fix it- he will have several levers to choose from. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-22-2016, 11:43 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Does the trigger "take up" in the usual way, but require extreme force at the end of its travel? I once had a shooting-condition navy (all matching) which had a trigger travel so long that it pulled all the way to the frame and required extreme tension at that point before it would release the sear. --Dwight

06-23-2016, 01:03 AM	#4
JiveTurkey User Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 18 Thanks: 7 Thanked 29 Times in 6 Posts	What's the best medicine for the afflicted bars? That's one area I've not had to fiddle with before. I'm reasonably competent mechanically.

06-23-2016, 06:20 AM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	In general, the parts in the trigger linkage are hardened, and will break before bending. There are a couple points that can be formed, but this takes some background. Try and diagnose the problem step by step first. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-23-2016, 09:47 AM	#9
JiveTurkey User Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 18 Thanks: 7 Thanked 29 Times in 6 Posts	Excellent advice gentlemen, I will do some diagnostic work today, thankfully I have a few other Lugers I can use for comparison and I fix old Mercedes so I understand it's important not to attempt any repairs until the issue is diagnosed correctly. Will report back later.

06-23-2016, 10:52 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Dom, As mentioned above, you most likely have too much overlap between the trigger bar and the striker and perhaps too stiff a flat trigger bar spring. Either of these will cause a hard trigger pull, also too stiff a striker spring. Ajustments or replacement of the trigger lever can possibly give you a quicker striker release, but would not give you a lighter trigger pull. i can inspect your luger, diagnose any problems and test fire for $75 plus $25 insured priority return S&H. At that point I should be able to give you a firm quote on parts &/or labor required to correct any problems. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-23-2016, 12:52 PM	#11
JiveTurkey User Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 18 Thanks: 7 Thanked 29 Times in 6 Posts	I seem to have found the problem. Should have spotted it earlier. Note, I propped the piece up in this position for a better photo, it is not stuck there. What's the consensus, sheared off or ground down by some bubba "gunsmith" (I'ma fix me up this gnat-see gun right good) or stuck in the depressed position? I'm betting sheared/ground down. Looks like a tiny pin needs to be punched out before it can be replaced. On the plus side the firing pin is original! Attached Thumbnails

06-23-2016, 01:16 PM	#12
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Stuck, I don't think you could shear that pin in use. It is solid and the hole and spring where it moves either rusted or filled with dried out lube. Yes, you do have to push out the small pin; a paper clip will usually do it- but maybe not on yours! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-23-2016, 01:58 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Soak the sear bar in solvent to dissolve old dried grease and I'll bet the disconnect will pop right out (at least I hope so ) Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-23-2016, 02:19 PM	#15
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Hoppes certainly will not hurt the finish as well as mineral spirits (paint thinner) or acetone will not hurt the finish. Go go for it, you may very well solve your problem with no expense! As you soak the part attempt to move the disconnect pin to work it loose. Good luck! Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-23-2016, 09:27 PM	#19
JiveTurkey User Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 18 Thanks: 7 Thanked 29 Times in 6 Posts	I let the part soak all day in Hoppes #9, several light taps with a brass hammer and some other non marring implements yielded nothing, no movement whatsoever. Soaking now in penetrating oil, will report back tomorrow.