Bad extractor or bad ammo?

[skeeter4206]

Good morning Ron. The pictures did not do justice on the pitting in the chamber. There are 2 or 3 good size pits on the topside of the chamber. Id have to still <1/16" deep, but very noticable. There are marks on the spent shells (see pics).

If I do need to redo the bore. When you say reline the inside, what is involved with that and would it be real noticable.

As for changing out the barrel, would that involve having to re blue the gun.

I am going to run some of the 600 grit sandpaper around the inside one more time, easily, not to make the bore out of round, and see what happens then.

Then maybe you can help me determine someone to do one of the other. changing the barrel is the last thing I wanna do if I have to re blue the gun.

Thanks Ron for your input.

[Curly1]

Have you tried a different brand of ammo?

[skeeter4206]

I sure havent. I have onlyt shot the gun once and 8 bullets was all. But I believe 2 of the 8 didnt extract out and the next bullet mis-feed. I pulled the toggle back and used my finger and both feel out easily. I reloaded the 2 that misfeed and had no issues. I have also noted that my toogle does not stop in the open position when last shell shot. But saying that you had to play with the magazinbe to get it to stay open with no bullets, but it will. I took the side grip off and played with the button on the side of the mag and could make it work properly that way. Thats why Im thinking new magm especially since mine has the old wooded bottom. Ill just leave it original and get a new one, withe a stronger spring inside.

But as for ammo what kind do you suggest?

[Curly1]

I would try that and then live fire test the 2 mags several times to compare.

Also if you can try a different brand of ammo to test with against what you originally fired.

[Ron Wood]

Glenn,
I do not believe that changing the barrel would require any refinishing of the gun. You might check with Tom Heller (lugerdoc) as he does a rather complete line of gunsmithing on Lugers and could probably fit your gun with a new barrel. The difficulty may be that a suitable barrel would be hard to find. Your gun has a "long" frame and receiver and barrels threaded for the long receiver are not abundant.

[rhuff]

Greg,

What does the tip of your extractor look like? I have had a couple of original extractors that broke off one "leg" of the extractor, or broke the rim of the extractor tip. Give it a good look, and put in a new spring. If your extractor is faulty, then replace it with a good one.....they are not difficult to obtain.

[skeeter4206]

The actaul end of the extractor that grabs the cartridge looked OK. There were no obvious signs of breakage, granted its the only luger extractor I have seen in person. Honestly this is the ONLY luger I have seen in person and not on a computer or book. But as for the spring, I do believe someone commented that the extractor is the spring on this type of extractor. There is no side pin on the toggle. The extractor does move easily up and down about a 1/16" before tension starts being put on the extractor.

I have put shells in the magazine (a full magazine) and just manaually moved the toggle without firing and the shells all extracted perfectly doing it that way. Its just that one time shooting. I think maybe a little TLC and a few more rounds thru it with new ammo and the ones I have,in a new magazine and see what happens from there.

[skeeter4206]

Well my question to all, if this gun begins to more of a hassle and resoring that will truly take away the value of the gun. Is it better to just leave it alone and just make it a conversation piece, being an old American Eagle luger.

I would like for it to be an occasional shooter, but without devauing the gun any more than it is already.

Whats a better choice. I am still kinda a newby to these beautiful guns.

Im already pondering buying a shooter gun that is mismatched or whatever just to enjoy. But Why let anold just lay there all lonely when she could get a little loving that she hasnt had in a long time. Yeah, Im still talking about guns, I think!

Thanks yall
Glenn

[zzsql]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The extractor is the proper type for a M1900. It is a spring itself, so there is no additional spring under it. It used to be very difficult to find replacements for them, but now some good quality reproductions are being produced. I doubt your extractor needs replaced (at least until it breaks, which hopefully won't happen ).
From your photos, it looks like your extraction problems may stem from the chamber. It looks pretty nasty with lots of pitting. A gunsmith may be able to polish it up a bit, but if that doesn't work, I would think the only alternatives would be a barrel reline or another replacement.

Thanks but I'm almost certain it's not an extractor issue.
Even with a weapon tool (Car key lol) it's difficult to pry the spent casing out of the chamber.

Any extractor would have issues removing the shell with that friction.

I'll have to find an experienced luger gunsmith.

Know one of those?

[skeeter4206]

Hey whats going on greg. Imglad you started this thread and got me looking at mine,which aint as bad as yours fromwhat I see. I hope all turns out good for your luger as well as mine.

Best of luck with the gun. Hope you get it shooting soon.

[skeeter4206]

WOW! That sums it up I'd say. I do do appreciate you putting that into perspective for me on this. This is the oldest gun I have ever owned and learning as I go. So I really do appreciate the feedback Rick. I guess maybe a good mount for it and let it be just coversation piece and invest elsewhere to make a good shooter luger.

Thanks
Glenn

[ithacaartist]

I just had a thought as to a restorative technique for a pitted chamber. It would require a re-blue, probably, but no machining other than chasing the chamber out again with a proper reamer, etc. The pits in the chamber could be filled in with silver brazing, provided it were prepared properly. Has anyone ever attempted this?

[skeeter4206]

Hey Rick, I was looking at my chamber on the feed end portion of the barrel. Im new to this and just outta curiosity the attched drawing I drew shows a radius in the barrel that I was curious if was common on the 30 caliber lugers. wasnt tottaly sure of how the geometry of this inside of the barrel looked. Just learning as I go here. Knowledge is a wonderful thing. I have learned so much just reading thru threads on this web sight.

Thanks
Glenn

LUGER CHAMBER.pdf

[skeeter4206]

Thanks Mr. Rick

[unspellable]

Sieger, long time no hear from you. Mostly my fault, been moving around a lot.

Re the stepped chamber. At the dawn of time (pre 9 mm Parabellum) when Luger & DWM were developing a 9 mm cartridge they first took a 7.65 case and necked it up to 9 mm leaving a very slight shoulder. (Some believe this was the version they tried to sell to the Brits.) The shoulder was too slight for reliable head spacing so the next step was the straight tapered case that became the 9 mm Parabellum. I'd always wondered if the chamber step was simply the older 9 mm chamber and they never bothered to remove the step.

Any opinions on this?

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by unspellable

I'd always wondered if the chamber step was simply the older 9 mm chamber and they never bothered to remove the step.
Any opinions on this?

Nope and yep. The "chamber step" was patented by Geo. Luger and was intended to give a positive gas seal. It has nothing to do with the "neck up" of the 7.65 mm cartridg to 9mm.

[zzsql]

Hi,
wanted to add a follow up reply after getting some good info from an experienced gunsmith I spoke to at a nearby gun show.

He advised that older gunpowder can cause corrosion in the tube, notably around the chamber where the casing sits.

And, what does corrosion do to metal?
Makes it coarse or rough (this is where the lighbulb came on for me)

So, it's not the size of the chamber or bullet casing but the roughness that causes the spent cartridge from binding up and failing to eject.

So, I'll try to find some sort of drill attachment to smooth that out a bit and see how it works.

If it works I'll post so we all know.

Cheers!
Greg in Indy

[mrerick]

Greg, the last thing you want to do is put a chamber out of round. That's why an earlier post mentioned using grit and a lathe - to keep the polishing centered.

When a 7.65mm .30 Luger cartridge fires, it pressure peaks at between 28,000 and 30,200 PSI.

It's the job of the cartridge case to seal the chamber during this pressure excursion. After that, brass springs back a thousandth to allow extraction.

If you take things out of round by polishing by hand, it's possible that you'll impact accuracy and could establish areas of imperfect sealing, allowing a higher risk of blowback.

[Sergio Natali]

By the looks of your case, this particular ammo seems a bit too strong for your pistol; I would check the chamber, and have it cleaned properly; I don't think it's your extractor. I often go to the range, sometimes also with one of my Lugers, I reload my 9 mm, so far never had any problems.

I also agree that any normal modern case should fit your chamber quite well. I would't allow the first "Gunsmith" down the road to fiddle with my precious Luger for "adjustments" of a design that was already perfect upon conception more than a century ago.

[Vlim]

One rule of thumb is to keep at least 100 yards of distance between Remington ammunition and a luger. Remington never managed to get any form of quality control in place, and the end result shows it.