Silenced Luger photo

Roadkill · 01-08-2006, 01:57 PM

rk

Fritzer · 01-09-2006, 12:28 AM

Okay, I give up.
How DO you aim the durn thing???

Dwight Gruber · 01-09-2006, 02:30 AM

You get close enough that you don't have to aim. You -do-, however, have to shoot it with your left hand...

--Dwight

George Anderson · 01-09-2006, 08:22 AM

Good observation Dwight. I'd venture that most of us just focused on the silencer and then moved on.

Edward Tinker · 01-09-2006, 09:05 AM

I think the photo is mirrored.

Why would you bother to make the safety and the magazine release (etc) be on the opposite side?

No reason as a shooter or a silencer to do so?

Ed

Ron Smith · 01-09-2006, 10:04 AM

It is a reversed photo. The solid side of grip safety and mag release button are also on the right side.

I wonder if these were equiped with a bolt lock, as on more modern models of silenced pistols?

In Vietnam I had the chance to examine a suppressed SEAL Team issued Ruger MK 1. Used for dispatching sentries and perimeter guards. It had a selective intregal bolt lock to prevent cyclic bolt clatter.

RS

Rod WMG · 01-09-2006, 10:17 AM

Ron and others,

At what range are these employed? I'd guess real close due to the inability to use the sights, but I've always wondered about just how close one would have to get.

Ron Smith · 01-09-2006, 10:30 AM

Rod,

On the average, I would guess about 10'. I think they were intended for "in the same room - snuff 'em if ya gottem" use. Where other people would be within ear shot. (no pun intended) Early baffled suppressors had an effect on accuracy. So they were used a relatively close range.

RS

Ron Wood · 01-09-2006, 11:26 AM

Suppressors also have to be used with sub-sonic ammo. This reduces the lethal range considerably. Plus, the added weight of the suppressor and reduced specific impulse of the sub-sonic round probably would not cycle the action of a Luger, so a bolt lock might not be necessary.

"snuff 'em if ya gottem" - clever!

Dwight Gruber · 01-09-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Smith
I wonder if these were equiped with a bolt lock, as on more modern models of silenced pistols?

In Vietnam I had the chance to examine a suppressed SEAL Team issued Ruger MK 1. Used for dispatching sentries and perimeter guards. It had a selective intregal bolt lock to prevent cyclic bolt clatter.

Developmental tests of the silenced Luger required subsonic ammunition for true silencing. I suspect that (believe I have read??) these rounds are not powerful enough to operate the action.

--Dwight

Ron Smith · 01-09-2006, 12:46 PM

Hey Ron, I'm just a clever kinda guy!

I wasn't aware that subsonic ammo had been in use that long.

However, besides the MK I that I examined. I have seen photos of a Beretta Brigadier and a Walther P.4 or P.38 Kurtz with slide locks to prevent any movement. If I can find the book, I will post photos and quote the text.

It is very possible that they would not be required on a Luger considering the stiff action.

Ron

the gunman · 01-09-2006, 12:54 PM

I have fired one of these an original piece that was brought back. With the original green tiped ammo. ( sure wish I had a couple of rounds very rare) fired entire magazine . It did
not cycle the toggle. Each round had to be loaded by recycling the action. I could not say how auccurate it was. As this was in a basement shooting into an old tree stump from no more than 20 feet. There was still a quite audibe noise.

Rod WMG · 01-09-2006, 02:31 PM

Hey, Ron S, I thought that was a tremendously clever remark too!

Pipeman's statement about a "quite audible noise" is why I asked the question. I've always wondered if these were effective in helping people avoid detection when firing when others of the enemy were fairly close by. I'm sure the bolt locking devices could help with certain pistols/ammo.

Snakeman · 01-10-2006, 02:59 AM

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has read the actual article in question (Die Schalldaempfer P08) in "Waffen Revue".

01-08-2006, 01:57 PM	#1
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Silenced Luger photo rk

01-09-2006, 12:28 AM	#2
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sights ? Okay, I give up. How DO you aim the durn thing???

01-09-2006, 10:04 AM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	It is a reversed photo. The solid side of grip safety and mag release button are also on the right side. I wonder if these were equiped with a bolt lock, as on more modern models of silenced pistols? In Vietnam I had the chance to examine a suppressed SEAL Team issued Ruger MK 1. Used for dispatching sentries and perimeter guards. It had a selective intregal bolt lock to prevent cyclic bolt clatter. RS __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-09-2006, 10:30 AM	#8
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Rod, On the average, I would guess about 10'. I think they were intended for "in the same room - snuff 'em if ya gottem" use. Where other people would be within ear shot. (no pun intended) Early baffled suppressors had an effect on accuracy. So they were used a relatively close range. RS __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-09-2006, 11:26 AM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	Suppressors also have to be used with sub-sonic ammo. This reduces the lethal range considerably. Plus, the added weight of the suppressor and reduced specific impulse of the sub-sonic round probably would not cycle the action of a Luger, so a bolt lock might not be necessary. "snuff 'em if ya gottem" - clever! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-09-2006, 02:30 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	You get close enough that you don't have to aim. You -do-, however, have to shoot it with your left hand... --Dwight

01-09-2006, 08:22 AM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Good observation Dwight. I'd venture that most of us just focused on the silencer and then moved on.

01-09-2006, 09:05 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	I think the photo is mirrored. Why would you bother to make the safety and the magazine release (etc) be on the opposite side? No reason as a shooter or a silencer to do so? Ed

01-09-2006, 10:17 AM	#7
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron and others, At what range are these employed? I'd guess real close due to the inability to use the sights, but I've always wondered about just how close one would have to get.

01-09-2006, 12:46 PM	#11
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hey Ron, I'm just a clever kinda guy! I wasn't aware that subsonic ammo had been in use that long. However, besides the MK I that I examined. I have seen photos of a Beretta Brigadier and a Walther P.4 or P.38 Kurtz with slide locks to prevent any movement. If I can find the book, I will post photos and quote the text. It is very possible that they would not be required on a Luger considering the stiff action. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-09-2006, 12:54 PM	#12
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	I have fired one of these an original piece that was brought back. With the original green tiped ammo. ( sure wish I had a couple of rounds very rare) fired entire magazine . It did not cycle the toggle. Each round had to be loaded by recycling the action. I could not say how auccurate it was. As this was in a basement shooting into an old tree stump from no more than 20 feet. There was still a quite audibe noise.

01-09-2006, 02:31 PM	#13
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey, Ron S, I thought that was a tremendously clever remark too! Pipeman's statement about a "quite audible noise" is why I asked the question. I've always wondered if these were effective in helping people avoid detection when firing when others of the enemy were fairly close by. I'm sure the bolt locking devices could help with certain pistols/ammo.

01-10-2006, 02:59 AM	#14
Snakeman User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has read the actual article in question (Die Schalldaempfer P08) in "Waffen Revue".