How much does an import mark kill value?

[wayne8661]

I have an opportunity to but a gorgeous 1916 unit marked pistol
All matching minus mag with a great holster:

But it has an awful import stamp. How much does it decrease the value?

To me it destroys all collector value!

Would like to hear what others say.

Wayne

[DavidJayUden]

To me it is a pretty big strike against it. Unless it is a rare variant, it almost bumps it into the shooter category, but maybe not quite.
IMHO.
dju

[wlyon]

I expect that someday it will be regarded as part of the history. For now it reduces the value considerably for me anyway. Bill

[sheepherder]

Some are small, unobtrusive, almost hidden. I'd say they don't detract from the price too much. But some are large and garish, and detract considerably.

I have one handgun (not a Luger) that has the importer spelled out in 'dots', like center pin strikes, all along the underside of the barrel, from muzzle to front of frame. Really ugly.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

To me it is a pretty big strike against it. Unless it is a rare variant, it almost bumps it into the shooter category, but maybe not quite.
IMHO.
dju

Something like that, yeah.

Also, you're calling this stamp "awful". Like Sheepherder mentioned there are different kinds of stamps, some are tastefully done and in an inconspicuous location (some early stamps can even be hidden under the grips, inside the frame etc), while others are of the "billboard" type where the importer's name is proudly displayed in the most visible place on the pistol.

The beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but an educated buyer will always use it as a bargaining point and it always detracts from the value to some degree.

[wayne8661]

This one in particular is placed on the bottom of the barrel
Small letters but still very visible

[DavidJayUden]

I guess the same could be said for British proofs. Only they were all over the gun.
Some import marks can be pretty inconspicuous.
dju

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

I guess the same could be said for British proofs.

I've held the opinion that British proofs were kind of cool. Provenance and all that. I would not lower the price if it were a question of British proof marks. Like, someone saying that it was worth $300 less because the British had proofed it. (The only British proofs I've seen were pics of British barrel proofs).

But if some importer had electro-penciled their name in big sloppy letters on the side or on the barrel, then I would think a $300+ deduction would be in order...Which would bring it down to shooter pricing...

Here's an example of a really annoying import mark - or it would be, if it were on a desirable P08 or 1900. Since it's on a $600 Walther P1, I really don't care. But on the barrel of a 1914 Erfurt artillery Luger, I would be devastated...

[DonVoigt]

Big negative in value for me, unless the luger is one that is only found with import markings-
like the RC's and Vopos, then it is just a fact of life.

Many import marked pistols are also refinished and repaired; be sure of what you see.

As always such a question without pictures is tough or impossible to call.

[Sergio Natali]

To me proof marks are a minus on the value of a gun, although it looks as if here in Europe we are more accustomed to own guns with stamps.
Herebelow one of my guns with British proof marks.

[Vlim]

Proof marks are ok. They are a reminder of the countries a gun passed through. Small import markings don't bother me. You also regularly see small dealer markings on German guns.

But 'billboard markings' plastered all over the gun...

The discussion is quite actual over here as new EU directive proposals include the marking of all gun parts with a unique ID.

So with a bit of bad luck, 'billboard guns' will be al that remain in the EU. That would effectively kill the export to non EU countries also. Lets hope common sense will prevail though.

[Eugen]

To paraphrase a famous movie line: "Import marks? We don't need no stinkin' import marks."

"I don't claim to know much about Lugers, but I definitely know what I don't like and I don't like import marks". - Eugen

...and you can quote Eugen on that.

[mrerick]

So how much does it kill collector value? If the firearm is commonly available without import marking, and it's quite visible I'd say it makes the gun a shooter, and reduces value 35%-40%.

Marc

[tudorbug]

This is a good question on a topic that is difficult to nail down. I've enjoyed seeing the variety of responses; they have been helpful and I thank all the posters for their efforts and time in responding.

David

[Olle]

Just for illustration, here's a billboard stamp from Century Arms (one of the worst offenders). I'd say that a stamp like this is the kiss of death to any gun. Market value is one thing, but if it's so butt ugly that nobody wants it (or want's to take a chance on it) you have effectively reduced the value to zero.

In this particular case, it also has a retrofitted safety (which, by the way, locks itself on every round and makes the gun very safe... ) which adds insult to injury. I have never seen an original Polish Tokarev for sale, but I would expect that it would be close to $1k if you ever find one. Now it's a $250-$300 shooter that has been disfigured for life.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Olle

Just for illustration, here's a billboard stamp from Century Arms (one of the worst offenders). I'd say that a stamp like this is the kiss of death to any gun. Market value is one thing, but if it's so butt ugly that nobody wants it (or want's to take a chance on it) you have effectively reduced the value to zero.

In this particular case, it also has a retrofitted safety (which, by the way, locks itself on every round and makes the gun very safe... ) which adds insult to injury. I have never seen an original Polish Tokarev for sale, but I would expect that it would be close to $1k if you ever find one. Now it's a $250-$300 shooter that has been disfigured for life.

In this particular case I'd say it detracts from the value some 120%.
They would have to pay me to take that thing out of their hands.

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by Olle

Just for illustration, here's a billboard stamp from Century Arms (one of the worst offenders). I'd say that a stamp like this is the kiss of death to any gun. Market value is one thing, but if it's so butt ugly that nobody wants it (or want's to take a chance on it) you have effectively reduced the value to zero.

In this particular case, it also has a retrofitted safety (which, by the way, locks itself on every round and makes the gun very safe... ) which adds insult to injury. I have never seen an original Polish Tokarev for sale, but I would expect that it would be close to $1k if you ever find one. Now it's a $250-$300 shooter that has been disfigured for life.

That's not just a "proof mark", that import mark is a sheer shame!!

[Olle]

Originally Posted by kurusu

In this particular case I'd say it detracts from the value some 120%.
They would have to pay me to take that thing out of their hands.

It's really a shame, the Polish version is very well built and would be a great addition to my collection if it was all original. Like I said, I have never seen one offered for sale, so they must be pretty darn rare in original configuration. The only reason I got it was that I don't want to shoot my Russian and Chinese TTs, so when this one showed up for $200 I just couldn't pass. I have to take that safety off though, it jumps to safe position with each and every round you shoot. It's on there to comply with the Saturday Night Special legislation, so it feels good to know that this gun can't be used by criminals.

[rhuff]

I own a 1944 Colt 1911A1 that is a "lend-lease" gun to England. It has a number of British proof marks on it, including frame, barrel, etc. In this case, it would only be correct if it has these proof marks. It does not have any import markings, as I purchased it before they were required.

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by rhuff

I own a 1944 Colt 1911A1 that is a "lend-lease" gun to England. It has a number of British proof marks on it, including frame, barrel, etc. In this case, it would only be correct if it has these proof marks. It does not have any import markings, as I purchased it before they were required.

Now that, in my opinion, is a horse of a different color. That might add value given the historical significance.