K98k stock repair?

[Blight]

Hey everyone. I tried posting this on K98 forum, but oddly couldn't get any answers. I've always noticed the folks here at Luger forum to be very helpful, so here I am!

I have a mismatched shooter K98k (appears to be parts from maybe two rifles); the stock is a red glue laminate type, Norwegian capture I think (matching butt plate has the crossed out number, dowel repair just under the bolt handle). It shoots great, but I just noticed a crack behind the trigger guard to up around the grip.

Upon close inspection, the crack seems to start at the dowel on the side opposite the bolt handle. The "lifted" flaky part can be felt(isn't entirely flush), but doesn't seem to move when pressed. My questions are these:

1. can this be repaired (without refinishing the whole thing? If so, can I do it or does it need professional help?

2. is it safe to keep shooting?

3. what causes a crack like this?

I checked for Recoil lug "setback" and it appears fine. Nor does the lug seem deformed (it is easily removable).

Help?

[Blight]

Here's the recoil lug

[sheepherder]

No one???

Well, if the crack can be spread, I'd recommend gluing it with a good quality glue. I have my favorite, but others will chime in with theirs.

If it can't be spread (or you don't want to risk breaking the stock), I vaguely recall a member either here or on another forum who used vacuum to suck the glue into the thin crack. I was fixing a cracked shotgun stock at the time, and I ended up enlarging the crack with a hacksaw until I reached the end and then gluing it. That method worked great, but left a long brown line after sanding. Held up to this day.

Hugh Clark or Jim Solomon or Dave Parker here might have some good ideas.

But...How oil soaked is the stock??? I've patched/spliced Enfield and Argentine Mauser stocks but I needed to soak them pretty well in lacquer thinner, repeatedly, before gluing.

[DonVoigt]

No one????
It hasn't been 24 hours!

Yes, it can be fixed. But not with "glue", use epoxy- and a good grade slow curing.

I always drill small holes into the crack, from the inside if possible, to get more area to adhere- like Rich's saw slot.

Usually I also install a brass pin or screw, again from the inside, if the piece is to be used/fired.

For a cosmetic repair, the pin/screw is not needed. It can be spot finished as needed.

What caused it? Poor fitting of the tang- not enough "relief" around the inlet, the metal moves slightly reward and hits the wood = a crack. You can see it also chipped out a bit of the laminate too.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

No one????
It hasn't been 24 hours!

Some new members are quite impatient. In years past, some have gotten quite nasty if they didn't get a quick reply.

Yes, it can be fixed. But not with "glue"...

I advocate Cascophen Resorcinol Glue from Aircraft Spruce, a two-part 'glue' used in industrial wood products - it's what plywood is glued together with. My dad & I built boats back in the 50's/60's with it, but the crap sold in hardware stores today is too watered-down & greenpeace-regulated to be much use. Aircraft Spruce's Cascophen is used in aircraft & marine applications.

I always drill small holes into the crack, from the inside if possible, to get more area to adhere- like Rich's saw slot.

The saw slot was how the Navy repaired cracks in turret canopies during WW II. Drill a hole at the end of the crack (so it wouldn't continue cracking) then lace the crack closed like a shoelace. I widen the crack with a hacksaw blade to allow the glue sufficient area to adhere to.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, all seem to work equally well.

[Sergio Natali]

Brian

If it's just a small crack leave it as it is, in case of a big crack unless you've got one of those almost non existent original and all matching K98K get a new stock, they are easy to find on the market and even the solid walnut ones are not expensive.
My two bob.


Cheers,

[DonVoigt]

Rich,
can a "regular" guy find the Cascophen resorcinol glue( actually it is a polymeric compound more akin to epoxy when mixed!) ; I was referring to what most folks think of as glue- Elmer's, Carpenter, Gorilla.

Acrylate glue, like "crazy glue", is even ok for small, clean, closed cracks where it can penetrate the wood; but it is not for use where there are any voids to fill.

I believe the resorcinol component is what gives the laminate glue it's red color, phenol was used in the "white" glue, IIRC.

All these do is mess up the surface preventing a real repair, JMHO.

And you are absolutely correct, most anything can, will , or has worked for someone!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Rich,
can a "regular" guy find the Cascophen resorcinol glue...

I couldn't - Marc [cdmech] directed me to their site.

Here's my Mauser repair thread - I used polyester resin for those two stocks -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=30518

Acrylate glue, like "crazy glue", is even ok for small, clean, closed cracks where it can penetrate the wood

Hugh Clark recommended Crazy Glue to me when I was looking to fix a grip...I've never used it...The instructions say it sets in under a minute; it takes me longer than that just to get the parts mated...

Cascophen is a Resorcinol Formaldehyde Adhesive...I don't follow the EPA news, but I would bet it is the formaldehyde that has been restricted and something else substituted in the 'commercial market' Resorcinol Glue products. Weldwood markets something they call Resorcinol Glue, but it doesn't hold. BTW, I did my Gonzo carbine buttstock sectioning with Cascophen. It even fills chip holes, seams, mistakes [oops!]. It sands down almost like Walnut.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Hugh Clark recommended Crazy Glue to me when I was looking to fix a grip...I've never used it...The instructions say it sets in under a minute; it takes me longer than that just to get the parts mated...

Rich, there are two consistencies of Crazy/super glue. The one we are most familiar with is the clear liquid. With it, you get one shot at putting the pieces together because there isn't any appreciable time to work with it--boom! It's set... I've used this when there is a crack, but not two pieces of wood that need to be aligned. It is runny enough to slurp considerably into the repair, and if you can flex the joint a little to help this action, be quick about it. I have used it to fasten material onto the $1k X k chip area, however, buy clamping that level on the back to a block covered with a layer of plastic wrap, then sliding the patch up to it. The block makes sure the levels in back are flush, so one only needs to regulate the up/down, left/right aspects, which are clearly visible from above while the patch is positioned.

Then there's a relatively new formulation in clear gel form. It allows lots more working/positioning time and has enough body to fill small imperfections. When the parts fit together well, there's little, if any, crack visible afterwards. Good pressure while it sets also helps.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

however, buy clamping that level on the back to a block covered with a layer of plastic wrap...

I can only add that when dealing with any kind of glue or resin I use waxed paper rather than plastic wrap. At some time long ago I had plastic wrap dissolve from a glue...Waxed paper doesn't dissolve.

[Blight]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies!

I'm usually pretty patient so the wait isn't an issue.

I also think ill-fitting is probably how it started (the stock is clearly from a different receiver). It's also a bit of a beater, so a careful not entirely cosmetic repair is not out of the question.

So (assuming I don't just put it in a different stock): Assuming I repaired it with high quality epoxy, would it simply re-crack if the stock is ill fit?

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I can only add that when dealing with any kind of glue or resin I use waxed paper rather than plastic wrap. At some time long ago I had plastic wrap dissolve from a glue...Waxed paper doesn't dissolve.

Rich, you are right! I'd forgotten about that, used to use it for gluing and clamping wood projects. I'll take back that part of my recommendation. But all this talk got me wondering if I still have a chunk of delrin in a shop drawer. Anything applied to block could moosh around or wrinkle, but with a block that's non-interactive, that won't happen. ( I think I actually used a piece of brass flat stock last time)

Originally Posted by Blight

would it simply re-crack if the stock is ill fit?

It just might. If there is a lot of play in the fit up, isn't one approach to use an epoxy bedding material?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

I still have a chunk of delrin in a shop drawer. Anything applied to block could moosh around or wrinkle, but with a block that's non-interactive, that won't happen...

My last project, I used the waxed paper taped to a 3/8" piece of polystyrene foam with a 1/4" wood backing piece on each side of the patch, then clamped it. The foam/wood was so I wouldn't leave clamp marks on the buttstock, and the foam distributed the clamping force fairly equally over the irregular surface. Worked out OK. There were a couple voids & bubbles that had to be filled in after initial sanding, but I was happy with the join.

[John Sabato]

Thanks for the wax paper suggestion. I have often had a problem with the disposable surfaces I have used when gluing various things. Waxed paper should be ideal as a working surface!

[DonVoigt]

Guys,
Be aware that using some products will affect wax paper; most any aromatic hydrocarbon(label usually says "petroleum distllates), i.e. the common solvents will dissolve the wax right off the wax paper.

It works on epoxy and "glue", because they don't have "solvents" in them.

So as they say with cleaning products, do check it with the material you plan to use.

Foam is a great idea to conform to non-uniform surfaces; deldrin is really slick stuff!

Wax paper is also great to put on your work bench to make for easy cheap clean up,
just roll it up and throw it away after it catches all the drips and spots.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

...deldrin is really slick stuff!

I love Delrin! (The generic name is 'acetal'). I've used it to make M16/AR-15 handguards, M16 bayonet grips, even a filler plate for my Vette dashboard. It's hard enough to buff to a high gloss but soft enough to turn/mill at increased speeds. It can also get expensive.

[conehammer]

Pattex Stablit Express if you can find it. I've bonded everything with it including the
fuel inlet nozzle on the carburetor for my brush cutter. The first parts I ever bonded with it, steel piano
wire parts to aluminum 40 years ago are as strong as they were then.

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents...6b80fd7fb0.pdf

For everyday tough bonds I use JB weld but when it matters and I can't weld, braze, bolt or rivet
two parts together Pattex Stabalit Express is what I use.

Jerry