Lugers as shooters

[Eugen]

I love my recently purchased 1939 numbers matching military stamped Luger. I am really getting into my budding Luger hobby. I have spent about $400 on books and reading materials to enhance my knowledge and curiosity. This forum has been immensely informative as well.

But, the next issue for me is that I want to shoot it. Yes, I realize that shooting it could diminish its value, especially if something breaks. Therefore I am thinking about buying another Luger as a shooter.

So this is my question for the learned ones that have been around this hobby longer than me. What should I buy?

Do I get a nonmatching number Luger and shoot away or should I buy a new model from the 70-80’s and shoot it? The reason I am asking is that I wonder if it is smart shooting any gun that is about 100 years old even if it is not a valued collector grade gun. Did any of you that have shooters select a “Disco Mauser” (an aptly termed model) for this purpose? If so why and which type? If I break an older vintage model or one of the 70-80’s variants are there plenty of replacement parts available for both? Conversely, is it a stupid idea to have a Luger shooter at all? I have several other new (Sig and HK) pistols that I shoot. So I already have enough shooters. I simply want to add a Luger to my shooting experience.

Are there any other comparative differences that I should consider for a shooter? What type of a shooter do you have?

Your sage advice would be greatly appreciated.

[ithacaartist]

Since getting out of bed every morning is a crap-shoot, one's sensitivity to the odds of something breaking can vary. Since I only own "interesting" shooters, I shoot all my Lugers--but some more than others.

Both original and repro parts are reasonably available, with the possible exception of the stainless Lugers from the 90's. The theoretically "stronger" (metallurgically) Mauser-made originals '37- '44(5?) are preferred by some, for shooting, but so far none of my earlier ones have had a problem using WWB ammo or its equivalent.

A Heinz Luger (mixed part numbers), or one with finish or structural (e.g. ground-off stock lug) issues should present the right qualities to allay most fears about affecting its value if a mishap occurs. If mixed, make sure it functions correctly before buying.

[kurusu]

My preferences for a shooter are.

1 Mauser made, 1937 to 1942
2 Minimal mismatch. Ie. Side plate; trigger; sear; firing pin; holdopen. Making sure the replaced parts are fitted to the pistol
3 Maybe refinished, in this case if all matching the better.
4 VoPo pistols are also a good choice, mostly mismatched but revised by some of the people that assembled them originally.

[Olle]

I have two shooters, both are of "mixed heritage" but have been worked over to function properly. They are fun and accurate guns, and they always make an impression when my friends come over to shoot. When I ask "Hey, wanna shoot a Luger?", the answer is always "Yes!". Everybody loves them.

I usually don't recommend shooting collectible, numbers matching guns, but except for possible finish wear I don't think you need to be too concerned. I would put a set of new springs in it for good measure, use moderate loads (Winchester 115 grain FMJ "white box" is usually recommended) and clean it afterwards, and that's it.

I don't think these guns are too fragile to shoot, but I have heard about small parts (like the extractor, firing pin etc.) breaking so buying a shooter is the best way to go. It will only be original once, and you'll be very sad if something happens to it. It only takes one broken, numbered part to make it non-matching, so it just ain't worth taking a chance.

[rhuff]

My shooters include all of my Lugers, but I do not own any really high dollar collectibles( > 4K $). I shoot my "Heinz 57" luger in 9mm, and my DWM matching alphabet Luger in 30 Luger the most, but the others make it to the range also. I really enjoy shooting Lugers.

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by kurusu

My preferences for a shooter are.

1 Mauser made, 1937 to 1942
2 Minimal mismatch. Ie. Side plate; trigger; sear; firing pin; holdopen. Making sure the replaced parts are fitted to the pistol
3 Maybe refinished, in this case if all matching the better.
4 VoPo pistols are also a good choice, mostly mismatched but revised by some of the people that assembled them originally.

I don't own Luger shooters any more, just few collectibles, but if I had to use a luger for the range I think I would have the same preferences of our friend Mario.

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Since getting out of bed every morning is a crap-shoot, one's sensitivity to the odds of something breaking can vary. Since I only own "interesting" shooters, I shoot all my Lugers--but some more than others.

Both original and repro parts are reasonably available, with the possible exception of the stainless Lugers from the 90's. The theoretically "stronger" (metallurgically) Mauser-made originals '37- '44(5?) are preferred by some, for shooting, but so far none of my earlier ones have had a problem using WWB ammo or its equivalent.

A Heinz Luger (mixed part numbers), or one with finish or structural (e.g. ground-off stock lug) issues should present the right qualities to allay most fears about affecting its value if a mishap occurs. If mixed, make sure it functions correctly before buying.

Ithcaartist, I hear you about the “crap shoot” thing. Since my Luger is a 1939 vintage and certainly worth less than $3k on good day. I may just have my occasional shooter in hand. Thanks for the additional comments, too.

Originally Posted by kurusu

My preferences for a shooter are.

1 Mauser made, 1937 to 1942
2 Minimal mismatch. Ie. Side plate; trigger; sear; firing pin; holdopen. Making sure the replaced parts are fitted to the pistol
3 Maybe refinished, in this case if all matching the better.
4 VoPo pistols are also a good choice, mostly mismatched but revised by some of the people that assembled them originally.

Kurusu , thank you for confirming the 37 to early 40s era as a prime candidate and itemizing additional criteria for selecting a shooter. But, can you define “VoPo” for me?

Originally Posted by Olle

I have two shooters, both are of "mixed heritage" but have been worked over to function properly. They are fun and accurate guns, and they always make an impression when my friends come over to shoot. When I ask "Hey, wanna shoot a Luger?", the answer is always "Yes!". Everybody loves them.

I usually don't recommend shooting collectible, numbers matching guns, but except for possible finish wear I don't think you need to be too concerned. I would put a set of new springs in it for good measure, use moderate loads (Winchester 115 grain FMJ "white box" is usually recommended) and clean it afterwards, and that's it.

I don't think these guns are too fragile to shoot, but I have heard about small parts (like the extractor, firing pin etc.) breaking so buying a shooter is the best way to go. It will only be original once, and you'll be very sad if something happens to it. It only takes one broken, numbered part to make it non-matching, so it just ain't worth taking a chance.

Olle, you raise some good points about wear or breakable items. Where do I buy repo or aftermarket springs, extractors and firing pins? Is there a vendor that supports this board that we should patronize? Perhaps using a replacement firing pin and storing the original would be a smart decision.

Originally Posted by rhuff

My shooters include all of my Lugers, but I do not own any really high dollar collectibles( > 4K $). I shoot my "Heinz 57" luger in 9mm, and my DWM matching alphabet Luger in 30 Luger the most, but the others make it to the range also. I really enjoy shooting Lugers.

Rhuff, my sole Luger is valued much less than $4k, and I would tend to agree that firing the valuable ones may not be wise.

Lastly, I was somewhat surprised that I received no suggestions to buy a 70-80s Interarm model to play with. Perhaps I assumed wrongly that the later American market version Mausers were less valuable and hence more likely to become shooters. Am I wrong about this?

Thanks to everyone, your advice is most appreciated and has be very helpful to me.

[Lugerdoc]

Eugene, I have most original and new repro luger parts instock, from M1900 thru the 1970s Parabellum. TH

[DonVoigt]

Eugen,
You have asked this same question several times in different ways.
I think you worry too much!

While none of us want to "lose" a collectable to a broken part, they are just pieces of metal- no one will live or die if something breaks.
Well-I suppose someone could die due to a catastrophic failure, but that chance is minuscule, IMO.

I would suggest you build yourself a shooter luger from miscellaneous parts, that you gather here and there!

I am not a fan of the "modern" luger copies, Mauser or other.
But as I have said before, they cost more than an original piece in shooter condition! So why go there? Parts are also less readily available , though Tom does have some/most at present.

You will learn a world of stuff about lugers and how they work, and the result will be a piece you can shoot without fear of breaking something. The experience can be and would likely be very rewarding.

Just food for thought.

[mrerick]

Both the WW-II Mauser and post war Interarms Mauser Lugers are quite well made.

There are subtle differences between the Interarms Mauser design and the wartime guns.

You can often find them in very good condition priced below even a shooter grade military Luger.

If you want to shoot one regularly, look for a WW-II era Mauser Luger that is refinished, mismatched and been properly fitted or has original finish conditions. These should still be reasonably priced, and should make excellent shooters.

While the Imperial Lugers had beautiful hand work and rust blued finishing the metallurgy of the later Lugers (WW-II and Interarms Mauser) is a little more advanced. There are also small improvements in the WW-II Mauser pistols like the fluted firing pin.

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

Eugene, I have most original and new repro luger parts instock, from M1900 thru the 1970s Parabellum. TH

Yep, you are on my (very) short list for parts and advice! Thank you.

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Eugen,
You have asked this same question several times in different ways.
I think you worry too much!

While none of us want to "lose" a collectable to a broken part, they are just pieces of metal- no one will live or die if something breaks.
Well-I suppose someone could die due to a catastrophic failure, but that chance is minuscule, IMO.

I would suggest you build yourself a shooter luger from miscellaneous parts, that you gather here and there!

I am not a fan of the "modern" luger copies, Mauser or other.
But as I have said before, they cost more than an original piece in shooter condition! So why go there? Parts are also less readily available , though Tom does have some/most at present.

You will learn a world of stuff about lugers and how they work, and the result will be a piece you can shoot without fear of breaking something. The experience can be and would likely be very rewarding.

Just food for thought.

Yes, I am approaching this whole thing with great deliberation. Perhaps too much. My knowledge is increasing daily from the help of so many folks here. My Luger reference library is growing as well. I am definitely having fun.

Originally Posted by mrerick

Both the WW-II Mauser and post war Interarms Mauser Lugers are quite well made.

There are subtle differences between the Interarms Mauser design and the wartime guns.

You can often find them in very good condition priced below even a shooter grade military Luger.

If you want to shoot one regularly, look for a WW-II era Mauser Luger that is refinished, mismatched and been properly fitted or has original finish conditions. These should still be reasonably priced, and should make excellent shooters.

While the Imperial Lugers had beautiful hand work and rust blued finishing the metallurgy of the later Lugers (WW-II and Interarms Mauser) is a little more advanced. There are also small improvements in the WW-II Mauser pistols like the fluted firing pin.

Good advice, mrerick, thank you. I am unsure how much I will shoot my or another Luger. I just want to approach this very cautiously and not learn 'hard' lessons needlessly. In the medical profession the credo is "First do no harm".

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Eugen

But, can you define “VoPo” for me?

Those were the Lugers that remained in service, after WWII, in the ex German Democratic Republic in the hands of the Deutsche Volkspolizei (German Peoples Police) commonly called VoPo.

[DonVoigt]

" In the medical profession the credo is "First do no harm"."

But one can't wait so long or be so deliberate that the patient dies!

Collecting and shooting a luger is just not in the same ballpark as medicine, JMHO.

Just "Do IT", have a little fun; live on the edge.

[kurusu]

List of most common broken parts I've seen in 18 years Luger competitions:

1 holdopen at least 4 or 5 that I can remember (best solution remove before shooting).

2 ejector - again at least 4 - No biggie not a numbered part, just keep fitted replacements handy or better have a backup pistol (competition only advice), for the casual shooter, just swallow your tears and your pride go back home and buy a replacement, just don't forget to have it fitted to your pistol.

3 rear toggle opening cracks near the knobs, seen it twice. Always a heartbreaking bummer. Only solution replace, preferably by a competent gunsmith who knows Lugers and preferably of the same vintage and maker of the rest of the toggle train.

4 Extractor breakage - same as the above.

5 breech block breakage (happened to me and it was a matching part ). Cost me money and my defending Champion title that year. Another very good reason for a backup shooter.

Never seen a firing pin breaking. But, if yours is not fluted. Get one. My breechblock most likely failed because someone had swapped the original fluted firing pin of my BYF 41 for an older unfluted one, and I had a batch of bad ammo with excessive headspace (totally my fault cause I made them) and had pierced primers.

[DonVoigt]

Kurusu,
remind everyone how many rounds you do shoot!

(Way more than most of us, I would think.)

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Kurusu,
remind everyone how many rounds you do shoot!

(Way more than most of us, I would think.)

Around a 1000 to 2000 a year.

And my only problem, so far, was the broken breech block mentioned above (and that was my fault).
It's also true that I generally remove the holdopen when shooting.

But it's also true that with bad luck you can get something broken on the very first shot. Remember they have been around for a while.

Just to illustrate bad luck and not Luger related. When I bought a brand new .32 kit for my hammerli 280 I had a leg of the breech block broken after a total of 150 shots fired using only factory ammo. Hammerli sent a replacement in a few days at no cost.

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

" In the medical profession the credo is "First do no harm"."

But one can't wait so long or be so deliberate that the patient dies!

Collecting and shooting a luger is just not in the same ballpark as medicine, JMHO.

Just "Do IT", have a little fun; live on the edge.

Alright, I am charged up. I am going to put my Nikes on and "Just do it"!

Originally Posted by kurusu

List of most common broken parts I've seen in 18 years Luger competitions:

1 holdopen at least 4 or 5 that I can remember (best solution remove before shooting).

2 ejector - again at least 4 - No biggie not a numbered part, just keep fitted replacements handy or better have a backup pistol (competition only advice), for the casual shooter, just swallow your tears and your pride go back home and buy a replacement, just don't forget to have it fitted to your pistol.

3 rear toggle opening cracks near the knobs, seen it twice. Always a heartbreaking bummer. Only solution replace, preferably by a competent gunsmith who knows Lugers and preferably of the same vintage and maker of the rest of the toggle train.

4 Extractor breakage - same as the above.

5 breech block breakage (happened to me and it was a matching part ). Cost me money and my defending Champion title that year. Another very good reason for a backup shooter.

Never seen a firing pin breaking. But, if yours is not fluted. Get one. My breechblock most likely failed because someone had swapped the original fluted firing pin of my BYF 41 for an older unfluted one, and I had a batch of bad ammo with excessive headspace (totally my fault cause I made them) and had pierced primers.

Holy cow Batman! Dems some busted parts. I think I'll take my Nikes back off and not "just do it".

Seriously now, thanks guys for some great advice and prodding. I plan to get out there and shoot my Luger. I'll report back when that happens. Lastly, I am getting the fever for another Luger.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Eugen

Alright, I am charged up. I am going to put my Nikes on and "Just do it"!


Holy cow Batman! Dems some busted parts. I think I'll take my Nikes back off and not "just do it".

Seriously now, thanks guys for some great advice and prodding. I plan to get out there and shoot my Luger. I'll report back when that happens. Lastly, I am getting the fever for another Luger.

Please consider this, that list of broken parts happened to different people during that time period. We have a competition where we mostly only use Lugers.

Remember that my only broken part during all this time was the aforementioned breech block.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by Eugen

Olle, you raise some good points about wear or breakable items. Where do I buy repo or aftermarket springs, extractors and firing pins? Is there a vendor that supports this board that we should patronize? Perhaps using a replacement firing pin and storing the original would be a smart decision.

I would recommend Wolff springs ( https://www.gunsprings.com/LUGER/cID1/mID38/dID162 ), but for the rest you're better off using original parts (Lugerdoc is your one stop shop for this). There are a few reproduction parts out there, but none as good as the originals.

[kurusu]

My shooters:

On top a 1938 S/42 on the bottom a 41 BYF.