Luger not shot in 25 years...is it safe?

sfirzli · 07-15-2014, 08:20 AM

Hi all,

I have a 1918 DWM (German) that has not been touched or fired in 25 years. It looks fine, I have cleaned it and oiled it where I can.

Any tips or things to consider before going to the range and firing? Or is there any part of the gun which usually needs special lubing?

Thanks

Firz

Edward Tinker · 07-15-2014, 09:15 AM

well, whether 4 yrs, 25 yrs or 80 years, same issues could be wrong. could be weak already - you never know

is it s collectable piece that you will regret shooting and when you crack the grips you'll say, there goes $200

history of it?

if its a so-so piece and you want to shoot some rounds - NO +P - easy full metal jacket - think about visiting a gunsmith - they can look it over for you - clean it up and leave some oil on the toggle, etc and then take it to the range

welcome to the forum

sheepherder · 07-15-2014, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

is it s collectable piece that you will regret shooting and when you crack the grips you'll say, there goes $200

Post pics of all the markings, plus any scratches, gouges, worn finish spots, full R&L views, anything else you see that looks old...the experts here [like Ed] can give you an idea how much $$$ you'll lose when a piece breaks (even if you replace it).

Quote:

history of it?

if its a so-so piece and you want to shoot some rounds - NO +P

Ed is spot-on with the ammunition recommendation. No Police rounds, no NATO surplus rounds, no any-nation surplus, no Tula or Wolf. Wal-Mart Winchester white box 115gr FMJ Target ammunition is the best recommendation for an old Luger.

I happen to have a pic here of a Luger firing +P ammunition...As you can see, the recoil lifted the gun up quite a bit...Lots of unburned powder spilling out the barrel...It definitely puts a lot of undue strain on the mechanical parts...

ithacaartist · 07-15-2014, 10:45 AM

Amazing pic, Rich. Looks as if the shot was fired while in mid-air! The first time I've seen a moto-X tank!

mrerick · 07-15-2014, 10:53 AM

Hi Firz, and welcome to the forum.

If your Luger has no corrosion or deterioration, and is all matching (meaning it was properly fitted at the factory), and the barrel is clear / bright / shiny and clean, it will probably function properly, except:

- Springs may have taken a set, and could be weak
- there could be internal broken parts - which is why it may not have been shot in all these years
- You could easily break a numbered part, even with the proper low velocity 9mm ammunition (mentioned above)

Many of us do not ever shoot collectible Lugers because of the very real potential for breaking a numbered part.

At minimum, you should have a gunsmith with a Luger background (and they are not common to find - even though many will tell you they know what they are doing) look it over thoroughly.

Marc

sheepherder · 07-15-2014, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Amazing pic, Rich. Looks as if the shot was fired while in mid-air! The first time I've seen a moto-X tank!

The caption/label says it's a T-80...I'm no sardine can soldier, but I don't think that's a US tank...

Gotta be a staged shot...Have you seen that pic of a F-14 breaking the sound barrier while flying on the deck???

Sergio Natali · 07-15-2014, 12:22 PM

Chuck

Very simply, consider your gun NOT SAFE at all until you have it properly checked by a competent armourer.
In all cases all these old Lugers should never be fired wih modern high sped/high power ammunitions because with the time they might have become somehow structurally unsound.

IMHO

Sergio

DavidJayUden · 07-15-2014, 12:29 PM

F:
Snug up the grip screws, lube the toggle assembly and the tracks that it slides in, lightly clean but do not oil the barrel. Give it a good visual inspection. If the magazine has a wooden bottom, pick up an aftermarket such as a Mec-Gar.
Use a pistol rug case and leave old leather holsters at home.
Use great care and patience when removing the left grip panel so you don't chip off the upper rear corner.
Use the ammo. already recommended.
Dry fire it a couple of times to be sure it clicks as it should. Lightly clean the insides of the side-plate, trigger/firing striker/etc. if it feels or sounds gummy.
Load and fire just one shot at a time for a few rounds. Inspect the gun after each shot, examining the brass for bulging or signs of pressure, and check the holes for signs of keyholing.
Just use good common sense and let us know how it goes. Unless it breaks, then I'd not mention that...
dju

Curss · 07-15-2014, 01:50 PM

If you have them, use snap caps when you dry fire the gun. I believe the firing pins are often numbered to the guns.

GySgt1811 · 07-15-2014, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

The caption/label says it's a T-80...I'm no sardine can soldier, but I don't think that's a US tank...

Gotta be a staged shot...Have you seen that pic of a F-14 breaking the sound barrier while flying on the deck???

Rich,

You're correct. It's Russian. MBT-80. While that particular shot may be staged (Probably not, actually) I've seen it done with the current US MBT. Although hitting anything meaningful is someone's bad luck.

"Sardine Can" Marine,

Gunny John

Lugerdoc · 07-15-2014, 04:06 PM

I agree with most of the above comments, but would stress checking the condition (power) of the recoil spring and carefully check the receiver and toggle assy for cracks before firing. TH

lugerholsterrepair · 07-15-2014, 05:04 PM

I use a very good 6 inch magnafier with a 75 Watt bulb in it. carefully check the receiver and toggle assy for cracks before firing. TH I would look at every part. Inspect the gun after each shot, examining the brass for bulging or signs of pressure, and check the holes for signs of keyholing. as David says. You could easily break a numbered part, even with the proper low velocity 9mm ammunition (mentioned above) Eric..Yup! That has been the fate of many an all matching Luger.

cirelaw · 07-15-2014, 07:42 PM

What part is most vulnerable for failure or damage? Eric

Sonofeugene · 07-15-2014, 08:13 PM

Springs will sometimes take a set when first used, however, after that they do not take a further set in normal use no matter how long they sit in a compressed state. Regardless of the number of years.

It's certainly advise able to have it checked out, but if it was safe to fire the last time, it'll be safe now as long as it's not seen corrosion during the intervening years. Of course, if it's a collector grade gun, you might want to think twice about firing it.

cirelaw · 07-15-2014, 10:08 PM

Perfection~

sfirzli · 07-16-2014, 04:50 AM

Thanks all. My other concern is safety (mine and others). Is it possible for apart to fly off or explode and hurt the shooter? Of course safety glasses will always be worn.

DavidJayUden · 07-16-2014, 07:34 AM

Well, I guess you are controlling an explosion with a bit of metal made about 100 years ago, so anything is possible.
However with the nod of approval from a competant gunsmith, the chances are remote. Statistically, it is much more likely that a part will break.
Maybe this is a good one to clean, lightly oil, and admire at home, and then take a newer gun to the shooting range?
dju

sheepherder · 07-16-2014, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfirzli

Is it possible for a part to fly off...

I have read several anecdotal reports here of front sights flying off...And magazine bottoms [wood] breaking/blowing out and spewing springs, followers, and cartridges on the ground...One member had a toggle knob break off...

There was a call for reports of breakages...Here it is...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=6491

Although the title says "Finished", members have continued reporting breakages after the failure report was compiled...

Lugerdoc · 07-16-2014, 10:03 AM

In working on lugers professionally for the last 40+ years, I've found the most common serious failure of a matching numbered part, is blowing out the back of the breach block so that the FP retainer will no longer lock-in. I believe that this is caused by a weak recoil spring and the BB bottoming out on the inside of the frame. TH

Sergio Natali · 07-16-2014, 12:44 PM

Chuck

quote
"...my other concern is safety (mine and others). Is it possible for apart to fly off or explode and hurt the shooter? Of course safety glasses will always be worn..." quote

For God's sake, follow my advice, forget any bubba's empirical suggestion, ask a really competent armourer. Full stop. A pair of glasses is NOT enouh for your safety.
Remember, always shoot safe, sometimes it's better not to risk and go to the range wih a modern gun.

My 2 cents

Sergio

07-15-2014, 08:20 AM	#1
sfirzli New User Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger not shot in 25 years...is it safe? Hi all, I have a 1918 DWM (German) that has not been touched or fired in 25 years. It looks fine, I have cleaned it and oiled it where I can. Any tips or things to consider before going to the range and firing? Or is there any part of the gun which usually needs special lubing? Thanks Firz

07-15-2014, 09:15 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	well, whether 4 yrs, 25 yrs or 80 years, same issues could be wrong. could be weak already - you never know is it s collectable piece that you will regret shooting and when you crack the grips you'll say, there goes $200 history of it? if its a so-so piece and you want to shoot some rounds - NO +P - easy full metal jacket - think about visiting a gunsmith - they can look it over for you - clean it up and leave some oil on the toggle, etc and then take it to the range welcome to the forum __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-15-2014, 10:45 AM	#4
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,291 Thanks: 7,058 Thanked 2,484 Times in 1,325 Posts	Amazing pic, Rich. Looks as if the shot was fired while in mid-air! The first time I've seen a moto-X tank! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

07-15-2014, 10:53 AM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi Firz, and welcome to the forum. If your Luger has no corrosion or deterioration, and is all matching (meaning it was properly fitted at the factory), and the barrel is clear / bright / shiny and clean, it will probably function properly, except: - Springs may have taken a set, and could be weak - there could be internal broken parts - which is why it may not have been shot in all these years - You could easily break a numbered part, even with the proper low velocity 9mm ammunition (mentioned above) Many of us do not ever shoot collectible Lugers because of the very real potential for breaking a numbered part. At minimum, you should have a gunsmith with a Luger background (and they are not common to find - even though many will tell you they know what they are doing) look it over thoroughly. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-15-2014, 12:22 PM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Chuck Very simply, consider your gun NOT SAFE at all until you have it properly checked by a competent armourer. In all cases all these old Lugers should never be fired wih modern high sped/high power ammunitions because with the time they might have become somehow structurally unsound. IMHO Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-15-2014, 12:29 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	F: Snug up the grip screws, lube the toggle assembly and the tracks that it slides in, lightly clean but do not oil the barrel. Give it a good visual inspection. If the magazine has a wooden bottom, pick up an aftermarket such as a Mec-Gar. Use a pistol rug case and leave old leather holsters at home. Use great care and patience when removing the left grip panel so you don't chip off the upper rear corner. Use the ammo. already recommended. Dry fire it a couple of times to be sure it clicks as it should. Lightly clean the insides of the side-plate, trigger/firing striker/etc. if it feels or sounds gummy. Load and fire just one shot at a time for a few rounds. Inspect the gun after each shot, examining the brass for bulging or signs of pressure, and check the holes for signs of keyholing. Just use good common sense and let us know how it goes. Unless it breaks, then I'd not mention that... dju

07-15-2014, 01:50 PM	#9
Curss User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 303 Thanks: 304 Thanked 98 Times in 75 Posts	If you have them, use snap caps when you dry fire the gun. I believe the firing pins are often numbered to the guns. __________________ -Chris

07-15-2014, 04:06 PM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I agree with most of the above comments, but would stress checking the condition (power) of the recoil spring and carefully check the receiver and toggle assy for cracks before firing. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-15-2014, 05:04 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,868 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	I use a very good 6 inch magnafier with a 75 Watt bulb in it. carefully check the receiver and toggle assy for cracks before firing. TH I would look at every part. Inspect the gun after each shot, examining the brass for bulging or signs of pressure, and check the holes for signs of keyholing. as David says. You could easily break a numbered part, even with the proper low velocity 9mm ammunition (mentioned above) Eric..Yup! That has been the fate of many an all matching Luger. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-15-2014, 07:42 PM	#13
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	What part is most vulnerable for failure or damage? Eric

07-15-2014, 08:13 PM	#14
Sonofeugene User Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 157 Thanks: 1 Thanked 118 Times in 64 Posts	Springs will sometimes take a set when first used, however, after that they do not take a further set in normal use no matter how long they sit in a compressed state. Regardless of the number of years. It's certainly advise able to have it checked out, but if it was safe to fire the last time, it'll be safe now as long as it's not seen corrosion during the intervening years. Of course, if it's a collector grade gun, you might want to think twice about firing it.

07-15-2014, 10:08 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Perfection~

07-16-2014, 04:50 AM	#16
sfirzli New User Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks all. My other concern is safety (mine and others). Is it possible for apart to fly off or explode and hurt the shooter? Of course safety glasses will always be worn.

07-16-2014, 07:34 AM	#17
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Well, I guess you are controlling an explosion with a bit of metal made about 100 years ago, so anything is possible. However with the nod of approval from a competant gunsmith, the chances are remote. Statistically, it is much more likely that a part will break. Maybe this is a good one to clean, lightly oil, and admire at home, and then take a newer gun to the shooting range? dju

07-16-2014, 10:03 AM	#19
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	In working on lugers professionally for the last 40+ years, I've found the most common serious failure of a matching numbered part, is blowing out the back of the breach block so that the FP retainer will no longer lock-in. I believe that this is caused by a weak recoil spring and the BB bottoming out on the inside of the frame. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-16-2014, 12:44 PM	#20
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Chuck quote "...my other concern is safety (mine and others). Is it possible for apart to fly off or explode and hurt the shooter? Of course safety glasses will always be worn..." quote For God's sake, follow my advice, forget any bubba's empirical suggestion, ask a really competent armourer. Full stop. A pair of glasses is NOT enouh for your safety. Remember, always shoot safe, sometimes it's better not to risk and go to the range wih a modern gun. My 2 cents Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.