Another 1914 HZa WWII Rework

phatrick88 · 12-25-2013, 07:59 PM

Very interesting 1914 Double Date Erfurt rig that I bought from the Grandson of the vet. Notch on the front of the receiver. All small parts are Erfurt proofed but appear to have numbers re-stamped? (see photos). Matching Mauser replacement E/655 barrel. Matching E/63 Mag but has a suffix and + sign. Finish is period original. Holster is a unit marked 1915 Arty reworked Police complete with Erfurt tool.

Would like to hear your opinions on this one. I can't decide if the entire gun was assembled from spare Erfurt parts by Mauser, or if they simple reworked an old gun on hand. How much of this Luger is "original"??

phatrick88 · 12-25-2013, 08:09 PM

Few more pics..

Dwight Gruber · 12-26-2013, 10:54 AM

Could you please show us all markings on the barrel?

--Dwight

ithacaartist · 12-26-2013, 01:50 PM

Several of the small parts appear in the pics to have been force matched, particularly the mag. The firing pin is relieved and un-numbered, so probably not original to the gun. Shouldn't the side plate have the Erfurt proof? Even the front face of the frame also appears to me to have been ground and re-numbered, including the double or triple struck "4". This always seems to be an issue in one way or another, but I'm not sure how it figures in with deducing this gun's provenance/history. When Arties underwent barrel changes back in the day by official facilities, did they also re-number or force match them--and how neat vs. detectable would re-numbered parts be? Would re-numbering a set of mags also be a part of that process?

phatrick88 · 12-26-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Shouldn't the side plate have the Erfurt proof? Even the front face of the frame also appears to me to have been ground and re-numbered, including the double or triple struck "4"

Good eyes! The front face of the frame has been ground and re-stamped just like the last two digits on the receiver. The side plate does have the Erfurt proof, it's just lightly struck and didn't show well in the photos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Could you please show us all markings on the barrel?

--Dwight

Hope these help, Dwight.

Dwight Gruber · 12-30-2013, 06:09 PM

The receiver (at least) was originally a 1914 Erfurt LP08. The pistol was in government hands in 1920 and had the property stamp applied at that time. It is impossible to say where the pistol spent the next decade-and-a-half, but sometime after 1936 (straight-wing eagles) it was repaired at Depot 20 of the weapons depot at Ingolstadt. It was given a Mauser-made replacement barrel (e/655) and proofed here, and probably given whatever salvage parts were around in order to return it to functional specification.

--Dwight

lugersrkewl · 12-30-2013, 06:25 PM

Is that a police holster?

ithacaartist · 12-30-2013, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugersrkewl

Is that a police holster?

Skye, you've noticed its closure strap setup is police style? There's an outside chance it could be a cut down Artie holster, as well If we saw pics of its right side, could tell if cleaning rod holder was replaced by mag holder, by the leftover stitching holes. The toe would show signs of re-work, too. I know one can sorta tell by the lid, too, but at the moment I cannot.

D.P.

phatrick88 · 01-01-2014, 12:23 PM

Hopefully this sheds some light on the holster. It's 1915 dated and unit marked to Field Artillery Regiment 6. Complete with a non-matching Erfurt tool.

The Grandson relayed that his Grandfather had always told the family he got the gun off a dead German in France, but we all know how those stories go..

alanint · 01-01-2014, 06:12 PM

The additional stitching holes on the back make this
a reworked Artillery holster.

ithacaartist · 01-02-2014, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

The additional stitching holes on the back make this
a reworked Artillery holster.

I'd like to see a pic of the right side, below the mag holder area to see if there are extra holes there, too, from the attachment (formerly?) of the cleaning rod holder. I suspect their existence, if it was re-worked.

12-25-2013, 07:59 PM	#1
phatrick88 User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: MN Posts: 54 Thanks: 7 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Another 1914 HZa WWII Rework Very interesting 1914 Double Date Erfurt rig that I bought from the Grandson of the vet. Notch on the front of the receiver. All small parts are Erfurt proofed but appear to have numbers re-stamped? (see photos). Matching Mauser replacement E/655 barrel. Matching E/63 Mag but has a suffix and + sign. Finish is period original. Holster is a unit marked 1915 Arty reworked Police complete with Erfurt tool. Would like to hear your opinions on this one. I can't decide if the entire gun was assembled from spare Erfurt parts by Mauser, or if they simple reworked an old gun on hand. How much of this Luger is "original"?? Attached Thumbnails

12-25-2013, 08:09 PM	#2
phatrick88 User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: MN Posts: 54 Thanks: 7 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Few more pics.. Attached Thumbnails

12-26-2013, 01:50 PM	#4
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,290 Thanks: 7,055 Thanked 2,482 Times in 1,323 Posts	Several of the small parts appear in the pics to have been force matched, particularly the mag. The firing pin is relieved and un-numbered, so probably not original to the gun. Shouldn't the side plate have the Erfurt proof? Even the front face of the frame also appears to me to have been ground and re-numbered, including the double or triple struck "4". This always seems to be an issue in one way or another, but I'm not sure how it figures in with deducing this gun's provenance/history. When Arties underwent barrel changes back in the day by official facilities, did they also re-number or force match them--and how neat vs. detectable would re-numbered parts be? Would re-numbering a set of mags also be a part of that process? __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

12-30-2013, 06:09 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	The receiver (at least) was originally a 1914 Erfurt LP08. The pistol was in government hands in 1920 and had the property stamp applied at that time. It is impossible to say where the pistol spent the next decade-and-a-half, but sometime after 1936 (straight-wing eagles) it was repaired at Depot 20 of the weapons depot at Ingolstadt. It was given a Mauser-made replacement barrel (e/655) and proofed here, and probably given whatever salvage parts were around in order to return it to functional specification. --Dwight Last edited by Dwight Gruber; 12-31-2013 at 05:29 AM.

01-01-2014, 12:23 PM	#9
phatrick88 User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: MN Posts: 54 Thanks: 7 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hopefully this sheds some light on the holster. It's 1915 dated and unit marked to Field Artillery Regiment 6. Complete with a non-matching Erfurt tool. The Grandson relayed that his Grandfather had always told the family he got the gun off a dead German in France, but we all know how those stories go.. Attached Thumbnails

12-26-2013, 10:54 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Could you please show us all markings on the barrel? --Dwight

12-30-2013, 06:25 PM	#7
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	Is that a police holster?

01-01-2014, 06:12 PM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The additional stitching holes on the back make this a reworked Artillery holster.