Lost my appeal and Luger.

Terry Tiell · 08-21-2013, 12:09 AM

Well some of you may remember the BS I've been dealing with for almost a year now and it looks like I'm about out of options. I lost my latest appeal to get my grandfathers Luger back from the state of Maryland. They argued and the judge bought it that because its not registered to me or anyone else in my family that its an "illegal gun" as they labeled it and therefor can not be returned. We argued that because it had been in our family since my grandfather brought it back from the war that it is exempt from needing to be registered. They countered with that since we have no proof of when or how we came to have it that we could have gotten it from a street thug last week. My lawyer tried everything he could think of but they shot him down at every turn, I was asked to leave the courtroom when I called the detective a common fu-king thief. My lawyer told me that my outburst had no bearing on the outcome cause the judge had made up his mind already that we're not getting it back.

But even MORE fun! My wifes brand new .45 that they also impounded along with my fathers old .38 and 1891 Mauser, well they're not sure they an release them to us BECAUSE of the unregistered "illegal gun" (Luger) that was in the house! Even tho they're registered and are legal the states attorney said he has to look into it to see if we can have them back. How crazy is this? They stole my grandfathers Luger and now they're trying to take the ones that WE LEGALLY OWN!

But now that the "illegal gun" is out of the house we've gotten a few new additions that are 100% legal that my lawyer says are safe, but I'm afraid to mention what exactly due to all the crap we've been thru. But to be on the safe side none are stored where anyone but my wife and I know where they are.

In other news the wife and I are looking for a new house out of state.

alanint · 08-21-2013, 05:03 AM

I would be seriously considering moving out of Maryland.

Unless it is impossible for anybody to move, I can think of no reason for anybody to stay in this state. And that is not just because of the gun issues.

NoncomRetired · 08-21-2013, 07:34 AM

I'm sure you're now on a Maryland state list somehow, somewhere, for having past unregistered weapons. If you're young enough to do a start over, get out of those nanny New England states and head to Texas or any state that has been consistence for individual rights. I'd meet you there but I'm too old and have moved enough in my lifetime.

Sorry for your loss.

Arizona Slim · 08-21-2013, 09:57 AM

What happened to you is not only unjust and unfair but also thoroughly disgusting, it would be hard to believe that we live in a society so devoid of justice except for the fact that our current political administration practices the same tactics.

Lon

mrerick · 08-21-2013, 10:11 AM

If I were you, I'd get a transcript of the trial over to the rights attorneys at the Gun Owners of America Foundation:

https://gunowners.com/legal.htm

http://gunowners.net/cgi-bin/ttx.cgi?cmd=newticket

With the actions in California, and your case it looks like a current Justice Department Strategy is to start hunting around the edges of the complexity of firearms law to start mass confiscations. Violate something minor, get caught, become a prohibited person and lose your firearms en-mass. Be aware that once on a state list, they probably have you on Federal lists. If there was a criminal conviction involved (at any level) and it's firearms related, you could well be prohibited on the NICS system.

GOA mainly files amicus briefs (friends of the court advice on active cases). However, it would be useful if someone very familiar with Maryland firearms law could look over the case and the court procedures followed. You could also file to prevent destruction of your property pending appeals.

Marc

alanint · 08-21-2013, 10:16 AM

Maryland's not alone. Some time ago in New Jersey, an uncle was followed out of his local outdoor shooting range by a patrol car and stopped on some trumped up moving violation.

They asked to see his trunk, which they clearly knew had firearms in it. Long story short is that they confiscated everything in the car. Uncle sued to get them back. Thugs at the police station set all his guns outdoors in their police impoundment lot during winter. Eventually, uncle was returned a pile of rust.

Terry Tiell · 08-21-2013, 10:33 AM

We're planning to fix up and sell our house here and move out of this horrible state! The amount of BS we've been thru for NO reason all because of this has been INSAIN to say the least. I'm out not only my grand dads Luger but probly all the rest of the stuff they took and about $5000 in lawyers fees.

I've contacted the NRA, the 2nd amendment group and smaller such organizations for help and or guidance and once I tell them I'm from Maryland they all say good luck but we can't do much to help you.

Its just a damn shame we have to leave our home and move out of a state in order to have the freedoms that I fought for in the ARMY! I just can not understand how its gotten to this point in this country and there is nothing I can do about it.

rhuff · 08-21-2013, 04:21 PM

So sorry to hear about the outcome. I would be mad as Hell!!! I do believe that you and your wife are making the correct decision to move and find a less stressful area to live. My hobbies would not allow me to live in your current state. Life is too short to be miserable continuously due to the laws of the state.

Curly1 · 08-21-2013, 04:34 PM

Sorry to hear this, it is a shame.

steven c · 08-21-2013, 05:30 PM

I had to go back and look for and read the first thread too. I did
Not see it From the start. I feel So bad for you and the out come of
It. I don't want say what I would like to here or on the net. We the people may need to stand up in numbers. To stop a police state later from happening, before we the people no longer have rights or the means to do so,,
I had to go down town once free ride! PI in front yard of my house. One of the boys in blue or black now days, has my $85 pocket knive. Funny no record of that one too. That one never made it to paper with the rest of my things I had on me.

Steve

Maestro · 08-22-2013, 01:12 AM

It's a real shame Terry. I feel for you.

I'm just wondering, is it not possible to match finger prints on the C&R Luger to your grandfather's? or any parts of it (e.g. mag, holster, etc..).. any chance of photo of him & buddies with their trophy? I have this one for my P38.

ithacaartist · 08-22-2013, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro

...I'm just wondering, is it not possible to match finger prints on the C&R Luger to your grandfather's?...

No, Darius. Terry took us along with pics and exposition when he restored the rust blued finish on his grandfather's gun, before the trouble started. We all shared in this triumph, and now feel the pain and anger, right along with him.

The older I get, the less I know. Unjust, irrational outcomes like this just baffle me. WTF?!

Terry, I'm so sorry...

D.P.

Terry Tiell · 08-26-2013, 12:09 PM

Thanks guys.

This was all I had left of my grand dad, my aunt raided his attic and sold off all his stuff from WWI and WWII at the local flee markets. The Luger made its way into my dads hands years prior to the raiding after my grand dad died because the take down spring broke when my grand dad and dad were shooting it in my grand dads back yard, he had 3 acres.

I'm more sad then angry now, sad to know the only thing I had left from him is gone and I can never get it back. I'm not even mad about the money I spent or the time I spent fixing it up just sad. Whats even sadder is that he and my father and I all served this country and this is how we're treated.

I may stop back by for a visit from time to time but seeing how my grand dads Luger is gone and I'm afraid to buy another till we move from this state I won't be around much for a while. Thank you to everyone who helped in my quest to get my grand dads Luger back into some kind of shape from the train wreck that my father allowed it to become. And thank you all for being such a wonderful group of supportive people and all the well wishes during this whole ordeal with the gun being stolen by the police state of Maryland.

SteveM · 08-26-2013, 06:09 PM

Did the government make copies of bring back certificates?

Edward Tinker · 08-26-2013, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveM

Did the government make copies of bring back certificates?

no, local units only

I know you've 'lost' but I'd appeal all the way up if I could.

I would write your congressmen and use the WW2 servicemens card that you can't believe that a 60 year old family heirloom has been stolen by the county.

even if it does you no good, write letters to your congresmen / congresswomen, city newspapers, counsel men , anyone to tell the world that you can't believe this is america and you are considering moving out of state.

Try some avenues that gun owners never consider - the ACLU will defend anyone's rights; question why your search and seizure rights were trampled upon?

Zorba · 08-26-2013, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

no, local units only

I know you've 'lost' but I'd appeal all the way up if I could.

I would write your congressmen and use the WW2 servicemens card that you can't believe that a 60 year old family heirloom has been stolen by the county.

even if it does you no good, write letters to your congresmen / congresswomen, city newspapers, counsel men , anyone to tell the world that you can't believe this is america and you are considering moving out of state.

This.

Aaron · 08-27-2013, 01:45 AM

There is some information missing here, or I just missed seeing it somehow. Can you please tell me how the authorities got their hands on this Luger in the first place?

08-21-2013, 12:09 AM	#1
Terry Tiell User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Fascist State of Maryland Posts: 224 Thanks: 55 Thanked 26 Times in 14 Posts	Lost my appeal and Luger. Well some of you may remember the BS I've been dealing with for almost a year now and it looks like I'm about out of options. I lost my latest appeal to get my grandfathers Luger back from the state of Maryland. They argued and the judge bought it that because its not registered to me or anyone else in my family that its an "illegal gun" as they labeled it and therefor can not be returned. We argued that because it had been in our family since my grandfather brought it back from the war that it is exempt from needing to be registered. They countered with that since we have no proof of when or how we came to have it that we could have gotten it from a street thug last week. My lawyer tried everything he could think of but they shot him down at every turn, I was asked to leave the courtroom when I called the detective a common fu-king thief. My lawyer told me that my outburst had no bearing on the outcome cause the judge had made up his mind already that we're not getting it back. But even MORE fun! My wifes brand new .45 that they also impounded along with my fathers old .38 and 1891 Mauser, well they're not sure they an release them to us BECAUSE of the unregistered "illegal gun" (Luger) that was in the house! Even tho they're registered and are legal the states attorney said he has to look into it to see if we can have them back. How crazy is this? They stole my grandfathers Luger and now they're trying to take the ones that WE LEGALLY OWN! But now that the "illegal gun" is out of the house we've gotten a few new additions that are 100% legal that my lawyer says are safe, but I'm afraid to mention what exactly due to all the crap we've been thru. But to be on the safe side none are stored where anyone but my wife and I know where they are. In other news the wife and I are looking for a new house out of state. __________________ Trying to redo grand dads Luger the best I can.

08-21-2013, 10:11 AM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	If I were you, I'd get a transcript of the trial over to the rights attorneys at the Gun Owners of America Foundation: https://gunowners.com/legal.htm http://gunowners.net/cgi-bin/ttx.cgi?cmd=newticket With the actions in California, and your case it looks like a current Justice Department Strategy is to start hunting around the edges of the complexity of firearms law to start mass confiscations. Violate something minor, get caught, become a prohibited person and lose your firearms en-mass. Be aware that once on a state list, they probably have you on Federal lists. If there was a criminal conviction involved (at any level) and it's firearms related, you could well be prohibited on the NICS system. GOA mainly files amicus briefs (friends of the court advice on active cases). However, it would be useful if someone very familiar with Maryland firearms law could look over the case and the court procedures followed. You could also file to prevent destruction of your property pending appeals. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-21-2013, 10:33 AM	#7
Terry Tiell User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Fascist State of Maryland Posts: 224 Thanks: 55 Thanked 26 Times in 14 Posts	We're planning to fix up and sell our house here and move out of this horrible state! The amount of BS we've been thru for NO reason all because of this has been INSAIN to say the least. I'm out not only my grand dads Luger but probly all the rest of the stuff they took and about $5000 in lawyers fees. I've contacted the NRA, the 2nd amendment group and smaller such organizations for help and or guidance and once I tell them I'm from Maryland they all say good luck but we can't do much to help you. Its just a damn shame we have to leave our home and move out of a state in order to have the freedoms that I fought for in the ARMY! I just can not understand how its gotten to this point in this country and there is nothing I can do about it. __________________ Trying to redo grand dads Luger the best I can.

08-21-2013, 04:34 PM	#9
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,247 Thanks: 125 Thanked 717 Times in 374 Posts	Sorry to hear this, it is a shame. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

08-21-2013, 05:30 PM	#10
steven c User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: texas Posts: 60 Thanks: 15 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	I had to go back and look for and read the first thread too. I did Not see it From the start. I feel So bad for you and the out come of It. I don't want say what I would like to here or on the net. We the people may need to stand up in numbers. To stop a police state later from happening, before we the people no longer have rights or the means to do so,, I had to go down town once free ride! PI in front yard of my house. One of the boys in blue or black now days, has my $85 pocket knive. Funny no record of that one too. That one never made it to paper with the rest of my things I had on me. Steve __________________ Looking for walther PP mag #981029

08-21-2013, 05:03 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	I would be seriously considering moving out of Maryland. Unless it is impossible for anybody to move, I can think of no reason for anybody to stay in this state. And that is not just because of the gun issues.

08-21-2013, 07:34 AM	#3
NoncomRetired Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 719 Thanks: 144 Thanked 306 Times in 146 Posts	I'm sure you're now on a Maryland state list somehow, somewhere, for having past unregistered weapons. If you're young enough to do a start over, get out of those nanny New England states and head to Texas or any state that has been consistence for individual rights. I'd meet you there but I'm too old and have moved enough in my lifetime. Sorry for your loss.

08-21-2013, 09:57 AM	#4
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	What happened to you is not only unjust and unfair but also thoroughly disgusting, it would be hard to believe that we live in a society so devoid of justice except for the fact that our current political administration practices the same tactics. Lon

08-21-2013, 10:16 AM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Maryland's not alone. Some time ago in New Jersey, an uncle was followed out of his local outdoor shooting range by a patrol car and stopped on some trumped up moving violation. They asked to see his trunk, which they clearly knew had firearms in it. Long story short is that they confiscated everything in the car. Uncle sued to get them back. Thugs at the police station set all his guns outdoors in their police impoundment lot during winter. Eventually, uncle was returned a pile of rust.

08-21-2013, 04:21 PM	#8
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,308 Thanks: 2,737 Thanked 993 Times in 729 Posts	So sorry to hear about the outcome. I would be mad as Hell!!! I do believe that you and your wife are making the correct decision to move and find a less stressful area to live. My hobbies would not allow me to live in your current state. Life is too short to be miserable continuously due to the laws of the state.

08-22-2013, 01:12 AM	#11
Maestro User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: "Where the streets have no names" Posts: 504 Thanks: 192 Thanked 200 Times in 136 Posts	It's a real shame Terry. I feel for you. I'm just wondering, is it not possible to match finger prints on the C&R Luger to your grandfather's? or any parts of it (e.g. mag, holster, etc..).. any chance of photo of him & buddies with their trophy? I have this one for my P38. Attached Thumbnails

08-26-2013, 12:09 PM	#13
Terry Tiell User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Fascist State of Maryland Posts: 224 Thanks: 55 Thanked 26 Times in 14 Posts	Thanks guys. This was all I had left of my grand dad, my aunt raided his attic and sold off all his stuff from WWI and WWII at the local flee markets. The Luger made its way into my dads hands years prior to the raiding after my grand dad died because the take down spring broke when my grand dad and dad were shooting it in my grand dads back yard, he had 3 acres. I'm more sad then angry now, sad to know the only thing I had left from him is gone and I can never get it back. I'm not even mad about the money I spent or the time I spent fixing it up just sad. Whats even sadder is that he and my father and I all served this country and this is how we're treated. I may stop back by for a visit from time to time but seeing how my grand dads Luger is gone and I'm afraid to buy another till we move from this state I won't be around much for a while. Thank you to everyone who helped in my quest to get my grand dads Luger back into some kind of shape from the train wreck that my father allowed it to become. And thank you all for being such a wonderful group of supportive people and all the well wishes during this whole ordeal with the gun being stolen by the police state of Maryland. __________________ Trying to redo grand dads Luger the best I can.

08-26-2013, 06:09 PM	#14
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Did the government make copies of bring back certificates?

08-27-2013, 01:45 AM	#17
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	There is some information missing here, or I just missed seeing it somehow. Can you please tell me how the authorities got their hands on this Luger in the first place?