Mauser Luger K date part help?

patsy57 · 07-27-2013, 12:40 PM

Hello I am wondering if anyone knows where I can get a bolt hold open, with a gothic S and a specific number I need on it? This would be a repro piece.

Please let me know

Thanks for helping with my restoration!

Edward Tinker · 07-27-2013, 12:58 PM

I am sorry, several questions;

a bolt hold open - you mean the hold open that goes into the frame and holds the toggle open after last shot?

And buying a repro, having the S and the sn number on it is considered bad form to collectors..

patsy57 · 07-27-2013, 01:23 PM

Yes that is exactly what I mean.

I agree it is considered bad form if its being sold and not disclosed as a restoration with these changes. However since I am the collector and restorer it's a non issue. That being said if I were to ever sell it which I am not, I would disclose this as being a restored gun with this change etc. much like we see some dealers do in their listings.

Thanks!

alvin · 07-27-2013, 07:56 PM

Here is the tricky part. The 1st seller will be honest, but the 2nd seller does not have to be. If the 3rd seller had bought it as a real one, then he had obligation to defend and prove it's "real". All the trick is to make it as real as possible. Nothing can prevent this from happening. Market driven.

On a foreign forum, I heard a stereotype saying "western people only do honest business". Well, I agree that most people in western world won't cheat on $5 milk, but for a $5,000 C&R, there are lots of possibilities. Depends on individual.

patsy57 · 07-27-2013, 08:23 PM

Alvin I see your point and agree with you.

My issue is the part I have in the gun is 1 digit off from the number it should be. It is marked correctly and a correct part but I'm not sure why one part having the correct "S" marking would be one digit off? Assembled wrong possibly?

Ed and Alvin
You both have great points and she will stay as she is... However I am curious as to what you think about my mismatched part and how it came to be? Have you seen this before? I'm sure someone didn't go through the effort of buying the gun, realizing the part wasn't matched and then searching high and low for a gothic s marked part that is one digit away from
His. Poss arsenal issue or?

Thanks!

lugersrkewl · 07-27-2013, 09:48 PM

May we see pictures of the marks?

patsy57 · 07-27-2013, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugersrkewl

May we see pictures of the marks?

Absolutely let me get this up this week.

Thanks!

patsy57 · 07-31-2013, 07:49 AM

here is a pic of the part, its off one digit should be 72

alvin · 07-31-2013, 08:06 AM

Is this the #71 hold open on the #72 gun mentioned in the other forum? It might be an assembly mistake, or stamping mistake. No way to know. If in its collector stage, someone had bothered installing a "correct" S marked part on it, why didn't he number it to #72 to make it matching? Surely this installation happened in its tool's stage. There are people who could weld up the 1, and put a 2 on top of that without affecting that tiny neighboring "S" and "7", but I would suggest leaving it as is.

patsy57 · 07-31-2013, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Is this the #71 hold open on the #72 gun mentioned in the other forum? It might be an assembly mistake, or stamping mistake. No way to know. If in its collector stage, someone had bothered installing a "correct" S marked part on it, why didn't he number it to #72 to make it matching? Surely this installation happened in its tool's stage. There are people who could weld up the 1, and put a 2 on top of that without affecting that tiny neighboring "S", but I would suggest leaving it as is.

I agree however does this make this K date less valuable to the collector because of this?

alvin · 07-31-2013, 08:19 AM

Yes. Less value. But it also comes lower. And, this #71 hold open gives me confidence that the numbers on other parts had not been doctored by professionals. I had C96 #974 with matching stock acquired from an auction house. Original all matching except the safety lever was numbered #874. God knows how could this happen. But not a big deal, it is what it is.

alanint · 07-31-2013, 08:30 AM

I would agree that this is a factory mistake and part of the gun's character. Many collectors would offer less for this mistake, others would not let it bother them, as it appears to have been a factory produced anomalie.

Vlim · 07-31-2013, 09:32 AM

It certainly wouldn't bother me

I thought I had an S-coded holdopen somewhere in my parts bin, but it seems it already found a use somewhere. Did find a regular-S coded sear, though.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-31-2013, 11:11 AM

A tempest in a teapot. So few K dates..Internal part. Like Gerben..would not bother me one whit. YOU don't care about value..you're not going to sell it. I would be extremely happy to have a K date like this. Don't worry about it. If it had a mismatched sideplate then it would be different.

07-27-2013, 12:40 PM	#1
patsy57 User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Mauser Luger K date part help? Hello I am wondering if anyone knows where I can get a bolt hold open, with a gothic S and a specific number I need on it? This would be a repro piece. Please let me know Thanks for helping with my restoration!

07-27-2013, 12:58 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I am sorry, several questions; a bolt hold open - you mean the hold open that goes into the frame and holds the toggle open after last shot? And buying a repro, having the S and the sn number on it is considered bad form to collectors.. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-31-2013, 11:11 AM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	A tempest in a teapot. So few K dates..Internal part. Like Gerben..would not bother me one whit. YOU don't care about value..you're not going to sell it. I would be extremely happy to have a K date like this. Don't worry about it. If it had a mismatched sideplate then it would be different. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-27-2013, 01:23 PM	#3
patsy57 User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Yes that is exactly what I mean. I agree it is considered bad form if its being sold and not disclosed as a restoration with these changes. However since I am the collector and restorer it's a non issue. That being said if I were to ever sell it which I am not, I would disclose this as being a restored gun with this change etc. much like we see some dealers do in their listings. Thanks!

07-27-2013, 07:56 PM	#4
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Here is the tricky part. The 1st seller will be honest, but the 2nd seller does not have to be. If the 3rd seller had bought it as a real one, then he had obligation to defend and prove it's "real". All the trick is to make it as real as possible. Nothing can prevent this from happening. Market driven. On a foreign forum, I heard a stereotype saying "western people only do honest business". Well, I agree that most people in western world won't cheat on $5 milk, but for a $5,000 C&R, there are lots of possibilities. Depends on individual.

07-27-2013, 08:23 PM	#5
patsy57 User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Alvin I see your point and agree with you. My issue is the part I have in the gun is 1 digit off from the number it should be. It is marked correctly and a correct part but I'm not sure why one part having the correct "S" marking would be one digit off? Assembled wrong possibly? Ed and Alvin You both have great points and she will stay as she is... However I am curious as to what you think about my mismatched part and how it came to be? Have you seen this before? I'm sure someone didn't go through the effort of buying the gun, realizing the part wasn't matched and then searching high and low for a gothic s marked part that is one digit away from His. Poss arsenal issue or? Thanks!

07-27-2013, 09:48 PM	#6
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	May we see pictures of the marks?

07-31-2013, 07:49 AM	#8
patsy57 User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	here is a pic of the part, its off one digit should be 72 Attached Thumbnails

07-31-2013, 08:06 AM	#9
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Is this the #71 hold open on the #72 gun mentioned in the other forum? It might be an assembly mistake, or stamping mistake. No way to know. If in its collector stage, someone had bothered installing a "correct" S marked part on it, why didn't he number it to #72 to make it matching? Surely this installation happened in its tool's stage. There are people who could weld up the 1, and put a 2 on top of that without affecting that tiny neighboring "S" and "7", but I would suggest leaving it as is.

07-31-2013, 08:19 AM	#11
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Yes. Less value. But it also comes lower. And, this #71 hold open gives me confidence that the numbers on other parts had not been doctored by professionals. I had C96 #974 with matching stock acquired from an auction house. Original all matching except the safety lever was numbered #874. God knows how could this happen. But not a big deal, it is what it is.

07-31-2013, 08:30 AM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	I would agree that this is a factory mistake and part of the gun's character. Many collectors would offer less for this mistake, others would not let it bother them, as it appears to have been a factory produced anomalie.

07-31-2013, 09:32 AM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	It certainly wouldn't bother me I thought I had an S-coded holdopen somewhere in my parts bin, but it seems it already found a use somewhere. Did find a regular-S coded sear, though.