Forum Etiquette

George Anderson · 07-22-2013, 04:24 PM

A member recently posted a "wanted to buy" for a magazine. I sent a PM to him and offered one. He responded with his email and a request for photos so I dug it, out took my camera and went outside to take photos. Then I came back in and uploaded the photos to my computer and then sent the member the photos. It's now three days or so and he has not responded to my initial email nor to a second email that inquired as to whether or not he had gotten the first email. I also sent a second PM to ask the same. Nothing! This isn't the only time I've experienced this type of boorish behavior.

NoncomRetired · 07-22-2013, 04:48 PM

I always make it a point to follow up on any request, sales or purchases...just the way I was raised. Being rude is a trait that comes with upbringing...IMO.

Like_Old_Guns · 07-22-2013, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

A member recently posted a "wanted to buy" for a magazine. I sent a PM to him and offered one. He responded with his email and a request for photos so I dug it, out took my camera and went outside to take photos. Then I came back in and uploaded the photos to my computer and then sent the member the photos. It's now three days or so and he has not responded to my initial email nor to a second email that inquired as to whether or not he had gotten the first email. I also sent a second PM to ask the same. Nothing! This isn't the only time I've experienced this type of boorish behavior.

+1, Buyers are quick to complain about Sellers, but I believe that Buyers are frequently the problem in a transaction that has gone poorly. Buyers can often be guilty of the very things they complain about, including poor communications, inflated expectations, and my favorite, the "customer is always right" syndrome. A little sensitivity on the part of the Buyer would make things much better.

Edward Tinker · 07-22-2013, 07:53 PM

Rick, what you say has merit. As a computer guy, I check email multiple times a day, not counting the hours I have it open. yet, weird to me, there are many folks who check their emails once or twice a week!

That said, if someone asks for pictures, or wins an item on ebay, I would think they would check within a day or so?

I also hear many buyers say they ask for extra pictures or of odd spots, so that they can see it. I personally have trouble with this, I usually take decent pictures and when folks ask for something 'different', well, I usually reply back and send them some extra pictures I didn't include in the auction, but I seldom take those special shots. As Geo said above, too many people ask for pictures and you never hear from them. I have found that few people who ask lots of questions end of buying

sheepherder · 07-22-2013, 10:24 PM

I have no dog in this fight, but I am still on a dial-up connection (as are several million others)...And a huge storm swept through the Great Lakes/NorthEast area over the last few days...I didn't lose my Internet connection, but I did lose power several times, briefly...Enough to have to reset my VCR/PC/alarm clock etc...The bulk of the storm was North of me...But the town I am in got 5 inches of rain in an hour...Power lines/poles were down...

...Stuff happens...We can't always luck out...I count myself lucky that I've never had an auction bid in when the power/phones go out...

CAP Black · 07-22-2013, 10:30 PM

If you stop and think about the situation; we frequently get all enthused at first sight and take action but then as we follow through and we become more rational and the emotion wears off, next we lose interest - sometimes its because we realize the item isn't what it first appeared to be. We should stop and close whatever we opened but we frequently go on to the next and don't look back. It is rude and inexcuseable.
Some people just don't care about the other guy.
Jack

cdmech · 07-22-2013, 11:05 PM

Asking for photos or additional photos is a real minor request to most people with a "smart" phone. "Click" and send. Two seconds.
Shouldn't be a big deal even for small purchases. That being said they guy did have a WTB ad so I would be a little anoyed too.
Marc

lew1 · 07-23-2013, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdmech

Asking for photos or additional photos is a real minor request to most people with a "smart" phone. "Click" and send. Two seconds.
Shouldn't be a big deal even for small purchases. That being said they guy did have a WTB ad so I would be a little anoyed too.
Marc

What about people who do not have a smart phone ?

alanint · 07-23-2013, 08:05 AM

It is certainly a fine line. My recent experience has been that buyers are a bigger headache than sellers. After helping liquidate a friend's militaria collection, (mostly on Ebay), I was sorely challenged by the collection of uncourteous, whiny, nasty, demanding, unsatisfied and down right unscrupulous buyers out there.

Dishonest Ebay buyers have discovered that Ebay will knee jerk side with them in any dispute and will immediately freeze PayPal funds or give the buyer an instant refund of any purchase price and it is up to the seller to prove his case if they wish to be paid. I am aware of many cases, (a high number from Australia, sadly), where the buyer simply claims they never received the goods. Even signed delivery receipts from UPS will not get you your money. I also had one jerk purchase a complete A11 leather flight helmet, goggles, microphones and oxygen mask from the collection, only to have it returned torn and with parts missing. I literally had to file a police report, with photos, etc. here locally in order to see the money returned to me. I now take step by step photos or film of the item being packaged with everything that might be included with time stamps on all images. I do the same when unpacking returned goods so the condition they arrive in can be documented. It is sad this kind of time must be invested these days.

Buyers now object to my high shipping costs. I explain to them that NOTHING leaves my hands without being fully insured, on the buyer's nickel, in order to protect BOTH of us. If they don't like it, they can shop elsewhere. The only exceptions to this is when selling to a closed community, such as this forum.

remerus · 07-23-2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

I am aware of many cases, (a high number from Australia, sadly), where the buyer simply claims they never received the goods. Even signed delivery receipts from UPS will not get you your money.

I hope that we are not tared with the same brush as I assure you we are not all like that down under.

However I will agree I have had my fair share of Internet tyre kickers unfortunately part and parcel when you try to sell something, but courtesy should be paramount and be a given when it is clearly not these days it seems. As mentioned in an earlier post it is something learnt in your upbringing.

alanint · 07-23-2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remerus

I hope that we are not tared with the same brush as I assure you we are not all like that down under.

Of course not, Peg. It is just curious that a number of incidents, which have occured to a community of traders I am privi to have dealings with, show that Australia, for some reason, has a high incidence of these type of events, (never received the package). Perhaps unscrupulous purchasers there feel that the distance gives them immunity and it will be difficult for US sellers to seek redress.

hansfischer007 · 07-23-2013, 10:00 AM

I have been selling on Ebay for over 12 years...have almost 6,000 POSITIVE rating....but you guys are right about some buyers.....two weeks ago....had a buyer file an Ebay complaint...(he had not contacted me at all)..anyway....he filed the complaint on the 28th of June...Ebay refunded his money and closed the file...same day..!!...without giving me a chance to respond...I called them up and literally talked to 7 different people...final line....we cant help you....so...called paypal up....got Very courteous gentleman..(in the US)..who got my money back for me....and speaking of Australia....I just dont ship there anymore.....have had at least 3 "failure to receive"..in last 3 months..in one case....I even faxed a copy of all my shipping receipts to Ebay.....they refunded the money to the customer....next day she sent me an email......the Edelweiss pin I sent her was nice..and sorry I had alllllll that trouble .with a Smiley face on end of her note ....in over 12 years...I have seen Ebay turn against the Seller entirely....and almost without question refund a buyers money .....on a scale of 1-10...they started out 12 years ago on a 10...now in my opinion they are down to about 2- oh yes...after....they had refunded the buyers money on the 28th last month.....they very courteously sent me questionnaire as to how the transaction went....I circled zero zero zero and almost ran out of cuss words....did it make a difference..????.....No....somewhere...some minimum wage Ebay rep just hit delete........Im sorry....do I sound like I have turned into an "Ebay hater.?".....I must confess I have....my wife says thats probably why I have had 3 heart attacks in last couple of years.....they irritate me so much.....so going to say good bye to Ebay..........

NoncomRetired · 07-23-2013, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Of course not, Peg. It is just curious that a number of incidents, which have occured to a community of traders I am privi to have dealings with, show that Australia, for some reason, has a high incidence of these type of events, (never received the package). Perhaps unscrupulous purchasers there feel that the distance gives them immunity and it will be difficult for US sellers to seek redress.

I always send things that are traceable even if I've know the person or sold to the buyer before, not that I mistrust the receiver but I don't always trust the people in-between, especially if it travels overseas where the contents have to be declared and that goes for me receiving the item. I insist that it be sent registered and sometimes insured and I send registered overseas, stateside, I send UPS registered whenever possible. It's a shame that our society has changed so much that ya have visions of the people today working in the mail room/sorting office. I can't blame myself for having those visions.

I don't like sending overseas because of all the damn customs forms that have to be filled out too.

I only got burned once buying off EBAY, I was years ago in Ireland and the seller was in Northern Ireland, he was eventually banned as a seller on EBAY.

NoncomRetired · 07-23-2013, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansfischer007

I have had 3 heart attacks in last couple of years......

Not worth it....dealing with the general public today is a health hazard. If ya don't know them, ya live long and prosper.

ithacaartist · 07-23-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lew1

What about people who do not have a smart phone ?

Charlie,

A "dumb" phone works fine, too, if it has a camera. They are usually in the range of at least 3 megapixels, which should be plenty for a pic with good resolution. The secret to a crisp shot is to steady the phone somehow, and to use good lighting and proper color balance. My 4-year-old phone does OK if I steady the shot. It keeps on working, so I am glad because I don't need, so far, to "upgrade" myself into an extra $40 per month, which is necessary to support the smarties' functions. Sadly, I've heard that at some point, lesser capable phones won't be supported by any of the carriers. Until then, I hope my old LG (flips open sideways, not slides, to present a miniature real keyboard) hangs in there, as any current replacement tends to be rather cheesy.

alanint · 07-23-2013, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoncomRetired

I insist that it be sent registered and sometimes insured and I send registered overseas, stateside, I send UPS registered whenever possible. I don't like sending overseas because of all the damn customs forms that have to be filled out too.

The problem with the evil Ebay/PayPal axis is that they will immediately side with the buyer and even presenting video of the UPS driver personally handing the seller the package won't get you your money back if the seller claims he did not receive it.
My contacts presented SIGNED receipts, with the buyers signature clearly on the slip and the buyers claimed it was not their signature. (How often have we all just scrawled gibberish on the driver's pad when we received something? And still got the package? The security is a joke and buyers know this).

It is even worse for our military/gun related hobby, which Ebay/PayPal has made clear they are not sympathetic to.
A US buyer is someone you can still reach out and touch through the law, if necessary. Are you really going to go after someone in a distant place like Australia for a couple of hundred bucks?
Crooked buyers there know this and actively troll ebay for stuff they would like to receive for free.

I too will no longer ship to Australia unless the buyer is vouched for.

NoncomRetired · 07-23-2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

The problem with the evil Ebay/PayPal axis is that they will immediately side with the buyer .

One thing I won't do is...PayPal, even though I have an account, it's never used.

alanint · 07-23-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoncomRetired

One thing I won't do is...PayPal, even though I have an account, it's never used.

It is often a necesary evil, as many buyers will not purchase unless they have PayPal's "protection", but I agree.

The idea that they can go in and simply take from your bank account or credit card is abhorrent in so many ways.

Zorba · 07-23-2013, 12:23 PM

Several random thoughts:

1) I've been an eBay member since about 1998 - but I won't sell there anymore. Their insistence on sellers accepting PayPal is the major reason. Although I do use PP for payments, I will NOT attach my bank account to them, thus I cannot accept payments.

2) Ebay has just deteriorated in general. Idiot buyers who bid things up to OVER the price of new. Idiot sellers who list a $25 item for $200 over, and over, and over, and over again - clogging the system. The only winner is eBay. Cheap Chinese junk everywhere, blah, blah, blah...

3) The in-ability to leave buyers anything but positive feedback. I understand why eBay did this - I had my perfect eBay feedback score blemished from retaliatory feedback from a bad seller. Fine - but this isn't the way to fix it - feedback should be "double-blind".

4) Most importantly - as a buyer I'm starting to shop there less and less. Their STUPID, IDIOTIC crippling of their search engine by no longer accepting wildcard searches is unacceptable.

5) Like someone else who posted here, I'm a compu-geek - I live by email. If I'm doing business online, I *EXPECT* and *DEMAND* an email response within 24 hours. Otherwise, the seller shouldn't be doing business online. Now I do agree that "stuff happens" and there are excusable reasons for non-responsiveness. But non-responsiveness as a general practice is unacceptable. Unfortunately, there are TONS of businesses out there who put up a website - often a very nice website - and then proceed to ignore it. Some of them are Fortune 500 companies!

6) Gunbroker is a lot like eBay was 15 years ago - its very nice and refreshing. I hope it stays that way.

7) As for shipping stuff to Australia - I think its a high risk shipping route. I ordered an LED 3rd brakelite for my car - there were only two places I could find this made in Australia item for sale - the official American importer, who turned out to be a "Chump", and an online store in Australia. I ordered it from the Australian outfit. It never showed up. Really. They re-shipped, I received the second shipment. The second shipment was not only tracked, but had "signature required". I don't blame them - I was just glad that they stood behind their sale, even though the loss wasn't their fault.

8) Cell phone pictures are unacceptable. Go back and read that again. At least 99.99999999999999% of the time...

lew1 · 07-23-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Charlie,

A "dumb" phone works fine, too, if it has a camera. They are usually in the range of at least 3 megapixels, which should be plenty for a pic with good resolution. The secret to a crisp shot is to steady the phone somehow, and to use good lighting and proper color balance. My 4-year-old phone does OK if I steady the shot. It keeps on working, so I am glad because I don't need, so far, to "upgrade" myself into an extra $40 per month, which is necessary to support the smarties' functions. Sadly, I've heard that at some point, lesser capable phones won't be supported by any of the carriers. Until then, I hope my old LG (flips open sideways, not slides, to present a miniature real keyboard) hangs in there, as any current replacement tends to be rather cheesy.

Not actually. I started receiving many text messages from people I did not know, from religious groups, salesmen, etc. that I had verizon put a block on text messages. I was paying for each and every one of them and I became tired of it. I can take a picture, but I cannot get it off of the phone.

07-22-2013, 04:24 PM	#1
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Forum Etiquette A member recently posted a "wanted to buy" for a magazine. I sent a PM to him and offered one. He responded with his email and a request for photos so I dug it, out took my camera and went outside to take photos. Then I came back in and uploaded the photos to my computer and then sent the member the photos. It's now three days or so and he has not responded to my initial email nor to a second email that inquired as to whether or not he had gotten the first email. I also sent a second PM to ask the same. Nothing! This isn't the only time I've experienced this type of boorish behavior.

07-22-2013, 07:53 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Rick, what you say has merit. As a computer guy, I check email multiple times a day, not counting the hours I have it open. yet, weird to me, there are many folks who check their emails once or twice a week! That said, if someone asks for pictures, or wins an item on ebay, I would think they would check within a day or so? I also hear many buyers say they ask for extra pictures or of odd spots, so that they can see it. I personally have trouble with this, I usually take decent pictures and when folks ask for something 'different', well, I usually reply back and send them some extra pictures I didn't include in the auction, but I seldom take those special shots. As Geo said above, too many people ask for pictures and you never hear from them. I have found that few people who ask lots of questions end of buying __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-22-2013, 10:24 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,414 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	I have no dog in this fight, but I am still on a dial-up connection (as are several million others)...And a huge storm swept through the Great Lakes/NorthEast area over the last few days...I didn't lose my Internet connection, but I did lose power several times, briefly...Enough to have to reset my VCR/PC/alarm clock etc...The bulk of the storm was North of me...But the town I am in got 5 inches of rain in an hour...Power lines/poles were down... ...Stuff happens...We can't always luck out...I count myself lucky that I've never had an auction bid in when the power/phones go out... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-23-2013, 10:00 AM	#12
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	Ebay Buyers.... I have been selling on Ebay for over 12 years...have almost 6,000 POSITIVE rating....but you guys are right about some buyers.....two weeks ago....had a buyer file an Ebay complaint...(he had not contacted me at all)..anyway....he filed the complaint on the 28th of June...Ebay refunded his money and closed the file...same day..!!...without giving me a chance to respond...I called them up and literally talked to 7 different people...final line....we cant help you....so...called paypal up....got Very courteous gentleman..(in the US)..who got my money back for me....and speaking of Australia....I just dont ship there anymore.....have had at least 3 "failure to receive"..in last 3 months..in one case....I even faxed a copy of all my shipping receipts to Ebay.....they refunded the money to the customer....next day she sent me an email......the Edelweiss pin I sent her was nice..and sorry I had alllllll that trouble .with a Smiley face on end of her note ....in over 12 years...I have seen Ebay turn against the Seller entirely....and almost without question refund a buyers money .....on a scale of 1-10...they started out 12 years ago on a 10...now in my opinion they are down to about 2- oh yes...after....they had refunded the buyers money on the 28th last month.....they very courteously sent me questionnaire as to how the transaction went....I circled zero zero zero and almost ran out of cuss words....did it make a difference..????.....No....somewhere...some minimum wage Ebay rep just hit delete........Im sorry....do I sound like I have turned into an "Ebay hater.?".....I must confess I have....my wife says thats probably why I have had 3 heart attacks in last couple of years.....they irritate me so much.....so going to say good bye to Ebay..........

07-22-2013, 04:48 PM	#2
NoncomRetired Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 719 Thanks: 144 Thanked 306 Times in 146 Posts	I always make it a point to follow up on any request, sales or purchases...just the way I was raised. Being rude is a trait that comes with upbringing...IMO.

07-22-2013, 10:30 PM	#6
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 174 Times in 96 Posts	If you stop and think about the situation; we frequently get all enthused at first sight and take action but then as we follow through and we become more rational and the emotion wears off, next we lose interest - sometimes its because we realize the item isn't what it first appeared to be. We should stop and close whatever we opened but we frequently go on to the next and don't look back. It is rude and inexcuseable. Some people just don't care about the other guy. Jack

07-22-2013, 11:05 PM	#7
cdmech User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 218 Thanks: 87 Thanked 134 Times in 55 Posts	Asking for photos or additional photos is a real minor request to most people with a "smart" phone. "Click" and send. Two seconds. Shouldn't be a big deal even for small purchases. That being said they guy did have a WTB ad so I would be a little anoyed too. Marc

07-23-2013, 08:05 AM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	It is certainly a fine line. My recent experience has been that buyers are a bigger headache than sellers. After helping liquidate a friend's militaria collection, (mostly on Ebay), I was sorely challenged by the collection of uncourteous, whiny, nasty, demanding, unsatisfied and down right unscrupulous buyers out there. Dishonest Ebay buyers have discovered that Ebay will knee jerk side with them in any dispute and will immediately freeze PayPal funds or give the buyer an instant refund of any purchase price and it is up to the seller to prove his case if they wish to be paid. I am aware of many cases, (a high number from Australia, sadly), where the buyer simply claims they never received the goods. Even signed delivery receipts from UPS will not get you your money. I also had one jerk purchase a complete A11 leather flight helmet, goggles, microphones and oxygen mask from the collection, only to have it returned torn and with parts missing. I literally had to file a police report, with photos, etc. here locally in order to see the money returned to me. I now take step by step photos or film of the item being packaged with everything that might be included with time stamps on all images. I do the same when unpacking returned goods so the condition they arrive in can be documented. It is sad this kind of time must be invested these days. Buyers now object to my high shipping costs. I explain to them that NOTHING leaves my hands without being fully insured, on the buyer's nickel, in order to protect BOTH of us. If they don't like it, they can shop elsewhere. The only exceptions to this is when selling to a closed community, such as this forum.

07-23-2013, 12:23 PM	#19
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 528 Times in 290 Posts	Several random thoughts: 1) I've been an eBay member since about 1998 - but I won't sell there anymore. Their insistence on sellers accepting PayPal is the major reason. Although I do use PP for payments, I will NOT attach my bank account to them, thus I cannot accept payments. 2) Ebay has just deteriorated in general. Idiot buyers who bid things up to OVER the price of new. Idiot sellers who list a $25 item for $200 over, and over, and over, and over again - clogging the system. The only winner is eBay. Cheap Chinese junk everywhere, blah, blah, blah... 3) The in-ability to leave buyers anything but positive feedback. I understand why eBay did this - I had my perfect eBay feedback score blemished from retaliatory feedback from a bad seller. Fine - but this isn't the way to fix it - feedback should be "double-blind". 4) Most importantly - as a buyer I'm starting to shop there less and less. Their STUPID, IDIOTIC crippling of their search engine by no longer accepting wildcard searches is unacceptable. 5) Like someone else who posted here, I'm a compu-geek - I live by email. If I'm doing business online, I EXPECT and DEMAND an email response within 24 hours. Otherwise, the seller shouldn't be doing business online. Now I do agree that "stuff happens" and there are excusable reasons for non-responsiveness. But non-responsiveness as a general practice is unacceptable. Unfortunately, there are TONS of businesses out there who put up a website - often a very nice website - and then proceed to ignore it. Some of them are Fortune 500 companies! 6) Gunbroker is a lot like eBay was 15 years ago - its very nice and refreshing. I hope it stays that way. 7) As for shipping stuff to Australia - I think its a high risk shipping route. I ordered an LED 3rd brakelite for my car - there were only two places I could find this made in Australia item for sale - the official American importer, who turned out to be a "Chump", and an online store in Australia. I ordered it from the Australian outfit. It never showed up. Really. They re-shipped, I received the second shipment. The second shipment was not only tracked, but had "signature required". I don't blame them - I was just glad that they stood behind their sale, even though the loss wasn't their fault. 8) Cell phone pictures are unacceptable. Go back and read that again. At least 99.99999999999999% of the time...