Luger rear sight problem(?)

PRD1 · 02-13-2011, 05:58 PM

I am unable to post pictures (lack of equipment and experience).
Perhaps a better description would help:
I've compared my unaltered P08 to the problem child, and the best way I can describe the appearance of the questioned item is by saying that you could achieve the effect by rounding-off the original rear sight so that its base was level with the humps at the rear of the upper receiver, then milling off the top rear-end of the toggle from about the location of the P08 sight blade, about 1/8" deep, leaving a 'step' in the back of the toggle, and filing a V-notch in the top of the remaining hump to form a rear sight.
Whatever was done to the toggle in the gun appears to have been part of the original assembly, since the remaining finish on all parts is a rust blue, and with similar amounts of wear from handling. The alteration of the toggle, if such it was, was neatly done before finishing the parts, so it appears original to the gun, rather than a later modification. What I can't fathom is WHY such a thing would have been done at all, since it results in a badly mismatched height combination between front and rear sights.
And for David: since the problem is an already too-short rear sight, filing on it would not have helped, while replacing it with a standard toggle and rear sight might well solve the problem. No solution I can think of involving the rear sight as it is now, short of making and attaching a new, taller rear sight (which I could do, if I have to), would solve the problem of excessively low POI.
Surely someone must have a spare rear toggle section?
Thanks for the interest and input.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

nukem556 · 02-13-2011, 06:10 PM

Mike...check with memeber Lugerdoc, or search Gunbroker's pistol parts page....they sell rear toggles on there all the time

Neil Young · 02-13-2011, 06:29 PM

From your description, it almost sounds like a sight notch cut into an artillery rear toggle link. That's probably not what it is, but I told you my imagination did some wild things.

Good luck.

Neil

sheepherder · 02-13-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Young

From your description, it almost sounds like a sight notch cut into an artillery rear toggle link.

That's what it sounds like to me, too. I have an artillery toggle with a notched rear sight screwed to it. And we have had pics of artillery Lugers with 4" barrels fitted without any rear sights at all. Plus at least one 4" artillery barrel w/arty rear sight...

So it's possible...even likely...

PRD1 · 02-13-2011, 09:37 PM

Thanks for the insights (grin!)!
I could easily believe the pistol might have originally been an artillery: I had already been pretty sure it was a post WW1 rebuild. Another feature I didn't mention earlier is that there is a 'notch' and small flat in the front of the receiver ring, leaving the barrel shoulder standing above the receiver ring at that point: I can easily imagine that cut being a clearance/seat for the back of the artillery rear sight.
Those crazy Germans would do anything to make a buck after the Great War, and the American buying public didn't know any better...
I will indeed check and see whether I can get a replacement toggle with proper rear sight, which should help solve the problem.
As I don't have a reference on Lugers, is there any place I could view photos of the various toggle assemblies?
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

sheepherder · 02-14-2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRD1

Another feature I didn't mention earlier is that there is a 'notch' and small flat in the front of the receiver ring, leaving the barrel shoulder standing above the receiver ring at that point: I can easily imagine that cut being a clearance/seat for the back of the artillery rear sight.

That's exactly what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRD1

As I don't have a reference on Lugers, is there any place I could view photos of the various toggle assemblies?

I only have a couple...maybe 5...

Others here have whole collections of toggle trains...

But here's an Erfurt Artillery toggle compared to an S/42 Army toggle...

PRD1 · 02-14-2011, 10:35 AM

Thanks! Mystery solved.
The photo makes it perfectly clear that what the Squareheads did was simply mill a cut across the back of the Artillery toggle and notch the top of the hump. What a bunch of wild and crazy guys!
The cobbled-up toggle is a DWM, and the other half of my Luger 'collection' is a 1937 S/42.
Appreciate your assistance - now I just need to round-up a new toggle.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

02-13-2011, 05:58 PM	#1
PRD1 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: S.E. AZ Posts: 69 Thanks: 18 Thanked 32 Times in 8 Posts	David and Neil: I am unable to post pictures (lack of equipment and experience). Perhaps a better description would help: I've compared my unaltered P08 to the problem child, and the best way I can describe the appearance of the questioned item is by saying that you could achieve the effect by rounding-off the original rear sight so that its base was level with the humps at the rear of the upper receiver, then milling off the top rear-end of the toggle from about the location of the P08 sight blade, about 1/8" deep, leaving a 'step' in the back of the toggle, and filing a V-notch in the top of the remaining hump to form a rear sight. Whatever was done to the toggle in the gun appears to have been part of the original assembly, since the remaining finish on all parts is a rust blue, and with similar amounts of wear from handling. The alteration of the toggle, if such it was, was neatly done before finishing the parts, so it appears original to the gun, rather than a later modification. What I can't fathom is WHY such a thing would have been done at all, since it results in a badly mismatched height combination between front and rear sights. And for David: since the problem is an already too-short rear sight, filing on it would not have helped, while replacing it with a standard toggle and rear sight might well solve the problem. No solution I can think of involving the rear sight as it is now, short of making and attaching a new, taller rear sight (which I could do, if I have to), would solve the problem of excessively low POI. Surely someone must have a spare rear toggle section? Thanks for the interest and input. PRD1 - mhb - Mike

02-13-2011, 06:29 PM	#3
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 552 Thanks: 567 Thanked 449 Times in 170 Posts	From your description, it almost sounds like a sight notch cut into an artillery rear toggle link. That's probably not what it is, but I told you my imagination did some wild things. Good luck. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

02-13-2011, 09:37 PM	#5
PRD1 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: S.E. AZ Posts: 69 Thanks: 18 Thanked 32 Times in 8 Posts	nukem556,Neil, Postino... Thanks for the insights (grin!)! I could easily believe the pistol might have originally been an artillery: I had already been pretty sure it was a post WW1 rebuild. Another feature I didn't mention earlier is that there is a 'notch' and small flat in the front of the receiver ring, leaving the barrel shoulder standing above the receiver ring at that point: I can easily imagine that cut being a clearance/seat for the back of the artillery rear sight. Those crazy Germans would do anything to make a buck after the Great War, and the American buying public didn't know any better... I will indeed check and see whether I can get a replacement toggle with proper rear sight, which should help solve the problem. As I don't have a reference on Lugers, is there any place I could view photos of the various toggle assemblies? PRD1 - mhb - Mike

02-14-2011, 10:35 AM	#7
PRD1 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: S.E. AZ Posts: 69 Thanks: 18 Thanked 32 Times in 8 Posts	Postino: Thanks! Mystery solved. The photo makes it perfectly clear that what the Squareheads did was simply mill a cut across the back of the Artillery toggle and notch the top of the hump. What a bunch of wild and crazy guys! The cobbled-up toggle is a DWM, and the other half of my Luger 'collection' is a 1937 S/42. Appreciate your assistance - now I just need to round-up a new toggle. PRD1 - mhb - Mike

02-13-2011, 06:10 PM	#2
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Mike...check with memeber Lugerdoc, or search Gunbroker's pistol parts page....they sell rear toggles on there all the time