Newbie Trying to Identify Luger

lokjell · 04-29-2010, 05:25 PM

I recently ended up with a DWM Luger, SN 2521. There is no letter anywhere near the serial number on the frame. It has British proof marks on the barrel, and has been painted with a black paint similar to what I've seen on old Enfield rifles. There is no date over the chamber. Any information and value would be greatly appreciated. I can provide further pictures if that would help.
Thanks

FNorm · 04-29-2010, 06:01 PM

I think you may have a 1908 first issue there, but wait for the experts. We need more/better pics of any marks on it.

FN

Norme · 04-29-2010, 06:03 PM

Hi Jeff, Welcome to the forum. You have a DWM 1st Issue, so called because it was the first year Lugers were ordered by the Imperial Army. Yours was manufactured in 1909. Regards, Norm

lokjell · 04-29-2010, 08:25 PM

Wow, thanks for the prompt replies. I'd be more than happy to provide pictures of any parts that may help identification. How can you tell that it is a first Issue Luger? Is it because it does not have the letter after the serial number?

LugerVern · 04-29-2010, 08:39 PM

Your gun may have a damaged breachblock, so if your thinking of one day shooting it, please have it checked out first.

A couple of our members sale parts

Vern

Ron Wood · 04-29-2010, 08:41 PM

It is a Model 1908, no stock lug and acceptance stamps/proofs on the left side of the receiver. Subsequent issues moved the markings to the right side of the receiver.

lokjell · 04-29-2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugerVern

Your gun may have a damaged breachblock, so if your thinking of one day shooting it, please have it checked out first.

A couple of our members sale parts

Vern

What are the signs of damage to the breechblock? Definitely don't want a hand grenade.

lokjell · 04-29-2010, 10:47 PM

Is there any way to tell if it was issued to the military? Or how it ended up in England? If I'm reading it right, it was proofed in England in 1955 in Birmingham. Would there be any way to remove the black paint off the gun? Or would that not be worth while since it has the English proof marks on it anyway?

DavidJayUden · 04-30-2010, 06:06 AM

The 3rd picture suggests that the front of the toggle assembly is bent,twisted,buckled. Firearms are overloaded to pass Brit. proof testing and I'm wondering it that didn't damage yours, however I suppose that they would not have stamped it had damage occurred during testing. Does the toggle function correctly and do all the gaps appear symetrical around the edges?
Unless that picture is an illusion, I'd not let my worst enemy fire it...
dju

alanint · 04-30-2010, 08:41 AM

I think what you are seeing are the results of the horrendous finish the infamous "British Black" produces, along with perhaps some powder residue..

Ron Wood · 04-30-2010, 10:00 AM

I think alanint is correct and the apparent distortion of the breechblock is an illusion. Many years ago when I had more time than sense, I bought a British proofed and painted Luger in a pawnshop. I spent many hours over a period of a few days with 0000 steel wool and acetone removing the paint (I'm not sure the acetone did any good, I just kind of wore the paint off). It was worth the effort though. Under the paint was a very nice original finish and the gun looked pretty darned good.

lokjell · 04-30-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

The 3rd picture suggests that the front of the toggle assembly is bent,twisted,buckled. Firearms are overloaded to pass Brit. proof testing and I'm wondering it that didn't damage yours, however I suppose that they would not have stamped it had damage occurred during testing. Does the toggle function correctly and do all the gaps appear symetrical around the edges?
Unless that picture is an illusion, I'd not let my worst enemy fire it...
dju

Ahh, okay. Yeah, the picture is just a little off. The block shows no signs of damage and is still symmetrical. Supposedly the owner before me fired it with no difficulties.
Thanks for the warning though.

lokjell · 04-30-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I think alanint is correct and the apparent distortion of the breechblock is an illusion. Many years ago when I had more time than sense, I bought a British proofed and painted Luger in a pawnshop. I spent many hours over a period of a few days with 0000 steel wool and acetone removing the paint (I'm not sure the acetone did any good, I just kind of wore the paint off). It was worth the effort though. Under the paint was a very nice original finish and the gun looked pretty darned good.

I'm awfully tempted to try it. From the spots where the paint is missing, the finish still looks good.

FNorm · 04-30-2010, 03:31 PM

Ron,

WOW, Lottsa work.. Do you think one of those big 45 pads would do the trick. Get the paint but not the blueing? https://www.big45metalcleaner.com/Order/

FN

Norme · 04-30-2010, 04:01 PM

Hi Jeff, I think it's worth the effort. The gun is worth very little in it's present condition. Be sure to post "after" photos. Regards, Norm

wlyon · 04-30-2010, 06:43 PM

Use 0000 steel wool with some type of fluid , gun oil , acetone,Hoppes. I rermoved the paint from an Erfurt, worked well, nice finish underneath. Just take your time and don't get the metal very warm. Bill

LugerVern · 04-30-2010, 11:43 PM

Bad picture:
OK, that's always possible, could I see a picture of the rear of the frame? If heavy loads were used might be able to see it there.

thanks

Vern

lokjell · 06-06-2010, 01:19 AM

Well, I completed cleaning the Luger. It turned out better than expected, and I can give very high marks to a spray can of Citristrip that I picked up at Walmart. It took that paint off like nobody's business. Here are the new pictures.

Edward Tinker · 06-06-2010, 03:06 AM

Looks much better

ed

04-29-2010, 05:25 PM	#1
lokjell User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Newbie Trying to Identify Luger I recently ended up with a DWM Luger, SN 2521. There is no letter anywhere near the serial number on the frame. It has British proof marks on the barrel, and has been painted with a black paint similar to what I've seen on old Enfield rifles. There is no date over the chamber. Any information and value would be greatly appreciated. I can provide further pictures if that would help. Thanks

04-29-2010, 08:41 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	It is a Model 1908, no stock lug and acceptance stamps/proofs on the left side of the receiver. Subsequent issues moved the markings to the right side of the receiver. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-30-2010, 10:00 AM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	I think alanint is correct and the apparent distortion of the breechblock is an illusion. Many years ago when I had more time than sense, I bought a British proofed and painted Luger in a pawnshop. I spent many hours over a period of a few days with 0000 steel wool and acetone removing the paint (I'm not sure the acetone did any good, I just kind of wore the paint off). It was worth the effort though. Under the paint was a very nice original finish and the gun looked pretty darned good. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-30-2010, 06:43 PM	#16
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,656 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,620 Times in 972 Posts	Use 0000 steel wool with some type of fluid , gun oil , acetone,Hoppes. I rermoved the paint from an Erfurt, worked well, nice finish underneath. Just take your time and don't get the metal very warm. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

06-06-2010, 01:19 AM	#18
lokjell User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Done cleaning Well, I completed cleaning the Luger. It turned out better than expected, and I can give very high marks to a spray can of Citristrip that I picked up at Walmart. It took that paint off like nobody's business. Here are the new pictures.

04-29-2010, 06:01 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	I think you may have a 1908 first issue there, but wait for the experts. We need more/better pics of any marks on it. FN

04-29-2010, 06:03 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Jeff, Welcome to the forum. You have a DWM 1st Issue, so called because it was the first year Lugers were ordered by the Imperial Army. Yours was manufactured in 1909. Regards, Norm

04-29-2010, 08:25 PM	#4
lokjell User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow, thanks for the prompt replies. I'd be more than happy to provide pictures of any parts that may help identification. How can you tell that it is a first Issue Luger? Is it because it does not have the letter after the serial number?

04-29-2010, 08:39 PM	#5
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Your gun may have a damaged breachblock, so if your thinking of one day shooting it, please have it checked out first. A couple of our members sale parts Vern

04-29-2010, 10:47 PM	#8
lokjell User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is there any way to tell if it was issued to the military? Or how it ended up in England? If I'm reading it right, it was proofed in England in 1955 in Birmingham. Would there be any way to remove the black paint off the gun? Or would that not be worth while since it has the English proof marks on it anyway?

04-30-2010, 06:06 AM	#9
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	The 3rd picture suggests that the front of the toggle assembly is bent,twisted,buckled. Firearms are overloaded to pass Brit. proof testing and I'm wondering it that didn't damage yours, however I suppose that they would not have stamped it had damage occurred during testing. Does the toggle function correctly and do all the gaps appear symetrical around the edges? Unless that picture is an illusion, I'd not let my worst enemy fire it... dju

04-30-2010, 08:41 AM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	I think what you are seeing are the results of the horrendous finish the infamous "British Black" produces, along with perhaps some powder residue..

04-30-2010, 03:31 PM	#14
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Ron, WOW, Lottsa work.. Do you think one of those big 45 pads would do the trick. Get the paint but not the blueing? https://www.big45metalcleaner.com/Order/ FN

04-30-2010, 04:01 PM	#15
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Jeff, I think it's worth the effort. The gun is worth very little in it's present condition. Be sure to post "after" photos. Regards, Norm

04-30-2010, 11:43 PM	#17
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Bad picture: OK, that's always possible, could I see a picture of the rear of the frame? If heavy loads were used might be able to see it there. thanks Vern

06-06-2010, 03:06 AM	#19
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Looks much better ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV