I need some help identifying this Luger

histman44 · 08-19-2008, 08:53 PM

Hello, everybody!
I'm new to the forum, as well as to identifying specific Lugers. I bought this in 2005, and was told it was a 1920 Commercial. I began doing some homework, and discovered that commercials had serial numbers hidden on parts, which this one does not. I also has two eagles: one on the right side of the reciever, with a crown over a letter, and the other eagle is on the left hand side of the barrel, which, from what books, and websites I've looked at, did not exist on 1920 Commercials It also has the Nitro proofs on the toggle, and reciever.

The crown over letter on the right side reciever.

The eagle on the right hand reciever, just ahead of the crown.

The eagle on the LH side of the barrel.

The LH reciever. serial number 7978, with the 78 stamped on the cover plate, and 93 of the other serial 6193 on the frame. Also appearing is the eagle on the barrel.

The RH reciever. With the crown letter, and eagle.

The magazine matching the frame, with the "i" suffix, and WaA eagle over 63, or 83.

The frame serial; 6193, with "i" suffix below. The barrel also has a suffix, I think the "i".

The "DWM" banner on the toggle, with the "78" serial stamp behind.
Does anybody have any ideas?
All right. Some new, modified pics.

Right hand reciever.

Left hand reciever.

Top of toggle.

magazine.
Hope these are of more help. I apologize for the haziness. My camera is an "antique" as it were, and photoshop hasn't helped any. Sorry.

Edward Tinker · 08-19-2008, 09:07 PM

Charles, nice up closes, but we really need some not so up close to see where they are and then the not so up closes a bit clearer...

As maybe I am dense, but I am unsure what you are trying to show us...

Do a full right, a full left and one from the top.

Ed

histman44 · 08-19-2008, 10:13 PM

I just put some more pics on. I hope they help some.

Edward Tinker · 08-19-2008, 10:19 PM

Charles, sorry, so far it doesn't look like a mystery to me, but we'll let others throw in their two cents.

The 78 on the DWM part of the toggle shows that it is a mismatch; as it should be the same as the last two of the rest of the gun.

Your markings on the right are a bit odd, with one acceptance marking and one proof marking.

In 1921 the first "commericial" lugers were made in the "i" suffix, Jan Still calls them Alphabet Commercial lugers. If sold to the police or army, they were marked in the military manner.

The eagle on the left of the barrel, might have a number under it?

I think the magazine is either a later matching by the army, or someone got lucky, as an eagle 63 is much later than 1921...

Ed

histman44 · 08-19-2008, 10:26 PM

I apologize about the stamp on the magazine. It's not a WaA, just an eagle 63 stamp.

histman44 · 08-19-2008, 10:28 PM

It is. the weapon is a two number weapon. All frame numbers are the same, and all reciever parts are the same.

histman44 · 08-19-2008, 10:28 PM

The eagle on the barrel does not have a number.

Lugerdoc · 08-20-2008, 09:17 AM

Disregarding your mismatch Mauser frame assy, the top half is interesting. I believe that the C/letter on the right side indicates military inspection during WW1, but due to the lack of addition markings & proof on this side, not assembled as a PO8 during WW1. The left over spare receiver was then assembled as a commerical (C/N proofing) during the Weimar era and finally rebarreled to 9mm in the early Nazi era (droop wing eagle on barrel) and proofed (eagle on RH receiver). TH

histman44 · 08-20-2008, 08:54 PM

Keep the analyses coming. The more info I get, the better. Can there be any date (give or take) attatched to this piece?

08-19-2008, 08:53 PM	#1
histman44 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I need some help identifying this Luger Hello, everybody! I'm new to the forum, as well as to identifying specific Lugers. I bought this in 2005, and was told it was a 1920 Commercial. I began doing some homework, and discovered that commercials had serial numbers hidden on parts, which this one does not. I also has two eagles: one on the right side of the reciever, with a crown over a letter, and the other eagle is on the left hand side of the barrel, which, from what books, and websites I've looked at, did not exist on 1920 Commercials It also has the Nitro proofs on the toggle, and reciever. The crown over letter on the right side reciever. The eagle on the right hand reciever, just ahead of the crown. The eagle on the LH side of the barrel. The LH reciever. serial number 7978, with the 78 stamped on the cover plate, and 93 of the other serial 6193 on the frame. Also appearing is the eagle on the barrel. The RH reciever. With the crown letter, and eagle. The magazine matching the frame, with the "i" suffix, and WaA eagle over 63, or 83. The frame serial; 6193, with "i" suffix below. The barrel also has a suffix, I think the "i". The "DWM" banner on the toggle, with the "78" serial stamp behind. Does anybody have any ideas? All right. Some new, modified pics. Right hand reciever. Left hand reciever. Top of toggle. magazine. Hope these are of more help. I apologize for the haziness. My camera is an "antique" as it were, and photoshop hasn't helped any. Sorry.

08-19-2008, 10:19 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	Charles, sorry, so far it doesn't look like a mystery to me, but we'll let others throw in their two cents. The 78 on the DWM part of the toggle shows that it is a mismatch; as it should be the same as the last two of the rest of the gun. Your markings on the right are a bit odd, with one acceptance marking and one proof marking. In 1921 the first "commericial" lugers were made in the "i" suffix, Jan Still calls them Alphabet Commercial lugers. If sold to the police or army, they were marked in the military manner. The eagle on the left of the barrel, might have a number under it? I think the magazine is either a later matching by the army, or someone got lucky, as an eagle 63 is much later than 1921... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-20-2008, 09:17 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Disregarding your mismatch Mauser frame assy, the top half is interesting. I believe that the C/letter on the right side indicates military inspection during WW1, but due to the lack of addition markings & proof on this side, not assembled as a PO8 during WW1. The left over spare receiver was then assembled as a commerical (C/N proofing) during the Weimar era and finally rebarreled to 9mm in the early Nazi era (droop wing eagle on barrel) and proofed (eagle on RH receiver). TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-19-2008, 09:07 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	Charles, nice up closes, but we really need some not so up close to see where they are and then the not so up closes a bit clearer... As maybe I am dense, but I am unsure what you are trying to show us... Do a full right, a full left and one from the top. Ed

08-19-2008, 10:13 PM	#3
histman44 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just put some more pics on. I hope they help some.

08-19-2008, 10:26 PM	#5
histman44 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I apologize about the stamp on the magazine. It's not a WaA, just an eagle 63 stamp.

08-19-2008, 10:28 PM	#6
histman44 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It is. the weapon is a two number weapon. All frame numbers are the same, and all reciever parts are the same.

08-20-2008, 08:54 PM	#9
histman44 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Keep the analyses coming. The more info I get, the better. Can there be any date (give or take) attatched to this piece?