Reproduction Snail Drum - progress

[PhilOhio]

And Don, both you and Jerry are probably right about my misplaced concern regarding bore wear. But I am 100% certain that my hand loaded ammo does not cause wear or stress greater than the commercial stuff. So using it, at the least, makes me feel better...reducing my stress and bore pressure.

[DonVoigt]

Phil,
I'd shoot a "cheaper" Thompson!

Bore condition in a luger is generally not an issue with respect to value- unless it is a sewer pipe!

You have convinced yourself of the bore wear issue, but I really doubt you could fire a luger enough to measure any wear from copper jacketed bullets.

Thompson for sure has shallow rifling- and the barrel is tough to change.

No reason not to have a shooter upper for your luger though, they are relatively cheap and none of those pesky registration issue to slow you down.

[DavidJayUden]

" I do think that original drum design has a lot of potential for breakage and user injury. "

I have little time in with the snail drums, and all of that is with the repros. Please explain the potential for user injury.
Thanks!
dju

[PhilOhio]

David,

It's about that very strong spring, and the winding lever. Don and I discussed it earlier in this thread.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Phil, I'm not convinced that the artilleries are especially prone to much breakage. Not only Artillery's but ANY DWM Luger pistol. Mauser thought they were so prone to breakage they changed the design in a half dozen areas just to try and prevent it.

[PhilOhio]

Jerry,

That sounds like what happens when any model is distributed in such large numbers that the smallest design, material, or manufacturing defect is going to show up sooner or later, even in very small numbers. And no group of people was more dedicated to trying to do it right, and continuously improve whatever it was. And Hitler had to screw it all up for them.

It's interesting to look at many models of contemporary western pistols in that light, old time German quality standards. I guess it's why all of us here regard lugers the way we do.

I was taking this Lange Pistole apart to clean it, marveling at the fit, finish, metallurgy, ergonomics. 100 years have passed, and it's as useful, functional, and pleasing to own and use as it was to several generations now dead. How many products, of any kind, can you say that about?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Phil, True! The Luger is ephemeral. It's brilliance will shine on for many more decades..as long as there is interest in the fine art of mechanics and an appreciation of quality. The Luger has that in spades. But believe me when I tell you that any DWM is prone to breakage. I can't count the many times a sad story has been posted on the two Luger Forums of a shooter telling his story..I have personally posted on a half dozen breakage stories myself. Likely to be more too..in future as I shoot often. If you ever get the chance and have any curiosity about this, get an example of 3 Luger extractors. WW1, WW2 Mauser and Swiss. The evolution of this one part will amaze you. The WW1 DWM is delicate in the extreme..the Mauser seems to beef it up, but the Swiss solved the problem.

material, or manufacturing defect is going to show up sooner or later, even in very small numbers. In the numbers of Luger's made, breakage was concurrent with numbers issued so the breakage problems were unlikely to be "small numbers" looking at the totality of it. Mauser saw it as a serious problem and went to great lengths of design and expense to address it and so did the Swiss.

[PhilOhio]

Jerry, Guys,

Yes, the Swiss (my ancestors) are often problem solvers in the end, except for one: cost.

But you stopped me in my tracks with your second sentence, and when you mentioned "an appreciation of quality". I think it's slipping away from us, as a people. This is often a subject of discussion among my middle aged gun collector friends, who wonder what will happen to the accumulated treasures of our lifetimes? We go to the big gun shows, see what is displayed, what is selling, and the average age of the people passing through. It is changing and tastes are changing.

This is the era of the plastic gun. They work great. They are very reliable. They go bang and they make big holes.

But they aren't Luger quality and art.

Those of us who discuss this fear that, when we are ready to let go of some of it, there will be few to take over and preserve and appreciate what we enjoy so much.

I'm not making any judgments about this, but I am observing and wondering what it means?

I suspect some, or maybe many of you, feel the same.

For now, I enjoy, appreciate, and wonder where we are going. The world has changed so much for the better in so many ways. But regarding gun collecting? I don't know. Things ain't the same. But last November's election was a big plus for us, and at least a short term reprieve for this hobby.

[DonVoigt]

Good food for thought and discussion, but first one would have to agree on a definition for "quality".
It is like some other things- we know it when we see it.

But to an engineer is is "suitability for purpose" and "reliability" and "manufacturing efficiency" and in the final analysis "cost".

Many confuse a crude appearance with poor "quality"- appearance has little to do with the above.

The modern pistol in many forms and iterations can be a quality piece; it is just not so "aesthetically" pleasing as a Luger.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Don't let your friends buy plastic guns.

[DonVoigt]

Jerry,
I don't own a Swiss luger(got to draw the line somewhere); so how did the Swiss solve the extractor problem?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Don the DWM hook under the extractor was very thin and dainty. I have had more than one break right off letting the extractor fly off into parts unknown. Mauser beefed up this hook considerably making it much stronger. The Swiss did away with the hook altogether extending this hook into a full circle so it was supported 360 degrees and IMO virtually indestructable. Well.. as far as staying connected to the pistol anyway.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Don the DWM hook under the extractor was very thin and dainty. I have had more than one break right off letting the extractor fly off into parts unknown. Mauser beefed up this hook considerably making it much stronger. The Swiss did away with the hook altogether extending this hook into a full circle so it was supported 360 degrees and IMO virtually indestructable. Well.. as far as staying connected to the pistol anyway.

Thanks Jerry.
The DWM and Mauser will interchange- but will the Swiss with full circle? Into a DWM or Mauser made bolt that is.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I have a fondness for items made from the turn of the Century up until about 1945, seems like after that things changed. The only plastic gun I own is my Colt AR15. I carried a weapon very similar to it in the Central Highlands for a couple of years..Well I take that back I have a half dozen Remington Model 66 Nylon .22 rifles. Those are cool..I guess I'm a hypocrite really!

[PhilOhio]

Jerry, we can't help getting attached to personal firearms that are not for paper punching. It was that way with a Luger I had, long ago and far away. For several years, I had no other choice, and I worried about reliability. But both of us are happily and boringly stateside for good. Later, an FN Hi Power made me feel better, as I do with Glocks today.

I have a Nylon 66, and like and respect the design. It just works and works, far more accurately than many expect. I have an accuracy tweak, a small unobtrusive set screw threaded into the top front of the forearm, adjusted to bear lightly on the barrel. You can eliminate all barrel play, and the nylon is very stable. Remington should have kept refining their concept, in my opinion.

[DonVoigt]

Jerry,
Yep, we all find a little of that in ourselves from time to time; I have several, well, perhaps too many plastic pistols. But when I go "out" they fit my pocket or purse better than a luger!

Now, about that Swiss extractor- will it fit a DWM breech block?

[Danny Smart]

how do I get GT to repair the snail drum?

[DTR04]

Originally Posted by Danny Smart

how do I get GT to repair the snail drum?

Contact GT @ gctomeks@msn.com

[Danny Smart]

thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

[G.T.]

Hi to all! Just for every ones information, I just sent the last 12 GT revised drums to Numrich for retail sale, and it will be some time before the next bunch is completed! The reason is, I have to order the steel, and make the main spring, before I can even start to do the other major operations in the revision process.... Anyway, if you want a GT one, here's your chance! Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT