Need unit mark identification --pics for Ron Smith

[Ida-Alp]

Ron--This is the pistol I was referring to yesterday. After removing it from the case I found the grip different than I thought.
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/whluger213.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/whluger213.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
I'm hoping these other pics will help identify it further.

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/whluger215.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/whluger215.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/whluger220.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/whluger220.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
These two are the marking on the holster

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/whluger223.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/whluger223.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/whluger224.jpg

This pistol will not be for sale but we'd like an approximate value. Thanks for the help--Al

here are more pics-








ADMIN: You can only have 8 images in ONE posting, and once thumbs are made, you canâ??t just go back and change them. Sorry about that. Ed

[Ron Smith]

Al, This is just a rough guess based on what I can find. Police markings can sometimes mean different things. There are constant debates on both forums about what they mean.
S= Schutzpolizei (protective police force)
E=Erfurt (name of the city)
I= 1st Centuria (section or assigned location)
571= Weapon #571

The value would be based on the over all condition of the pistol and holster. The holster, allthough not a # match to the weapon #. Is matched to the unit. This is a big plus.
Also, the city "Erfurt" may add some value to some collectors. Since it is where the Erfurt gov't arsenal was located. Makers of Erfurt Lugers. That is if I am correct in my translation.
Is it all matching, including magazine? Does it have a spare magazine?
More photos of the entire pistol would help a lot. Value could range from $500 to $1500, more than likely someplace in between, depending on all of the things I have mentioned.

Ron

Al, I never thought to ask. Do you know what you have? Just in case you don't. You have a 1916/1920 DWM police rework.A WWI Army issue reworked and reissued to the police, after the war. The small doglegged bar riveted to the upper left side of the receiver is a police mandated sear safety. Added to prevent accidental discharge of the pistol after it's disassembled for cleaning.

[Edward Tinker]

I would think from the views, it is $800-$1000, including the holster? Less if not all matching or if pits we can't see <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

The markings I haven't seen before...

Ed

[Ida-Alp]

Thanks Ron & Ed--I have more pics that I'll add to those above .. The s/n is 706-n, all parts, including grips, are marked 06. It's 9mm, has some straw color left, has 2 non matching mags, one wood base, one aluminum base with an eagle?? on it.
What's with the two dates?? Al

[Edward Tinker]

Al, a "double-date" is what many people call them. The first 1916 was when it was made, the 2nd, 1920 is a Reichswehr property stamping, not technically a date, as sometimes you will find a 1921 made gun with a 1920 "date" stamp.

Ed

[Ron Smith]

Al After WWI the german populace was offered a cash bounty for privately owned weapons, by the government. It was a decree called the "disarming of the people". The Government ordered that all of the Government Property weapons be stamped with the year of the decree, or "1920". Thus identifying them as Gov't property, to prevent anyone from collecting the bounty on weapons stolen from the Gov't.
This period from 1919 to 1933 was called the Weimar era. Your pistol is a "Weimar Police" pistol. Ed is a retired MP. A "Lousy Copper" His handle is "Weimar Police" on another forum. He's really into them "Cop" guns.

Ron

[Ida-Alp]

Boy did I screw up--I tried to add some new pics to my original thread and lost the first batch. Do I have to start all over?? Al

[Edward Tinker]

it is because I MADE them into "thumbs". That makes larger pictures smaller, and you can click on them. Very handy when we want to show larger pictures, but it doesn't make the screen all wonky and distored / too big where you have scroll back and forth... But once you make them into thumbs, if you go in and try to change ANYTHING, everything gets all wonky.

I have fixed them.

Ed

[Ron Smith]

Al, There is some blue loss on the sideplate, which effects value. If the holster is sound, no rips, holes, cracks,etc. And the stitching is all good. I would side with Ed on value. $700-$800 for the pistol. Add another $100-$150 for the holster. $75-$85 for the police marked mag.
Keep in mind that I'm am not a Luger expert by any means. So this is just my estimate. Someone else may see it differently.
Ron

[Ida-Alp]

Ed-Thanks for saving my bacon again. I wasn't aware of the 8 pic rule. We should call you Mandrake for the way you can manipulate these threads around.

Ron--Thanks a lot for all the interesting info. That's just what we needed.

I have only one more question. I'd like to know what those four marks on the receiver mean?? Again, thanks very much for your time and effort. Al

[Ron Smith]

Al
The 4 stamps are proofs. Verifying that the pistol passed various stages of inspection and acceptance. The Eagle is the firing proof. Added after it was test fired.

Ron
Al
Do you mind telling us how you came by this pistol? If it's none of our business. That's fine too. Just curious,and interested in the history of them. Just part of a collectors obsession.

[Edward Tinker]

<img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" />



<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

just figure that people will be sooooooo grateful that... <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

[Ida-Alp]

Ron--It is a war trophy as part of a soldiers display at the Warhawk Air Museum in Nampa Id. I'm going to make a sign with all the info you've given to add to the display. I'll send you a pic when it's finished.

Ed-- Any time you're in the area give me a call and I'll be happy to "clink" a few with you. Al

[Ron Smith]

Al
Cool! Will be looking forward to it. Glad I could help.
Thanks,Ron

[RockinWR]

Al,
* Ron is essentially correct save for one tecnicality. The 4 stamps on the left receiver are not all "proof marks".
- The first three stamps on the left are Imperial Army Inspector's Acceptance stamps applied progressively as the pistol's components became fabricated and assembled into a complete, fully functional firearm per Army specifications.
- The right most stamp is the firing proof eagle stamp. I think the German term is Beschussadler.
* I know: Picky-Picky-Picky. Felt compelled to comment 'cause this info will accompanying a Museum display to be seen by the general public and we are the educational Forum source.
Respectfully,
Bob

[Ron Smith]

Bob
No problem. I was just trying to be briefly informative . I did'nt think about educational aspects of it. Good point.

Ron