How dumb can I be?!

Walt · 03-23-2004, 09:34 PM

I just purchased a Luger at a local gun shop. It is in well used condition, mismatched numbers, but the price was right for a shooter. After tearing it down for a good cleaning and oiling I noticed that the toggle unit was in excellent shape, 90% + original bluing, all matching numbers (56), but no rear sight! Guess I forgot to look for one on there! Is there a way to retrofit a rear sight (I knew the price was too good) on here, or does anyone need a real nice toggle for their artillery and would like to trade for a toggle with a sight? Well, I wanted a cheep shooter, but kinda hoped I could hit something when I shoot itÃ¢?Â¦

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Big Norm · 03-24-2004, 12:48 AM

Walt,
don't feel too bad about the mistake. You have an out by watching Ebay. You should be able to find what you are looking for there and maybe sell your artillery toggle for a profit. Watch the forums "For Sale" area. Maybe you can find what you are looking for there pretty cheap.
Big Norm

Lugerdoc · 03-24-2004, 08:21 AM

Walt, Unless you plan to "shoot from the hip", I have plenty of standard PO8 toggle assemblies available. Just let me know the date on your chamber, so I can supply the correct maker and whether your pistol is rust or salt blued and perhaps we can work a trade. Tom

John Sabato · 03-24-2004, 10:33 AM

Welcome to the Lugerforum Walt... all good suggestions above. Lugerdoc is your quickest and safest option for a trade...

John D. · 03-24-2004, 10:55 AM

Hi Walt..!

Maybe a side-mount scope or a grip laser sighting system..?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Seriously - don't feel badly - I know more then a few of us have done something similiar in our past - we just deny it.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

And - Welcome to the LugerForum!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Walt · 03-24-2004, 11:58 AM

Hummm, a laser sight mounted on the rear toggle link, that would make quite a show every time you pulled the trigger! I'll have to think about this some!

Thanks for the info, this is my 1st Luger, guess I was a little to excited to notice the little things, like a sight.

Pete Ebbink · 03-24-2004, 12:26 PM

Two questions :

1. Assuming this rear sightless toggle is in its original, factory configuration, what model would it belong to ? If any...?

2. Assuming the rear sight blade/notch was just filed down and the toggle refinished...why would someone do this to a luger ? Would it enhance shooting somehow ? Or was it an attempt to make it more snag-proof for pulling out of a pocket ?

Just curious...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 03-24-2004, 12:34 PM

Pete, whether original or fabricated, IMHO it would have to be either an artillery luger or a Luger carbine rear toggle... There is enough bulk at the upper rear of the Luger that the removal of a rear sight would hardly make any difference in "snag-proofing" it.

I can see no other reason why the toggle would not have a rear sight milled onto it in standard P-08 configuration.

Pete Ebbink · 03-24-2004, 12:55 PM

Hello Walt,

Does your new luger have a notch in the front/top of its receiver, as shown :

This might confirm your gun may have been an Artillery model at some point-in-time...

Also...is your chamber dated ?

Regards,

Pete...

Walt · 03-24-2004, 06:34 PM

No, there is not a notch at the receiver, or a date, the toggle S/N does not match the lower. The condition of the pistol is good, the toggle is excellent, looks like a case of mis-matched parts. The lower is a 3 digit S/N, I guess that means it is early production?

Hugh · 03-24-2004, 11:27 PM

Walt,

I have a few extra toggle trains. I will be happy to trade you one with a rear sight for yours. If interested email me at hhclark@academicplanet.com.

Hugh

Walt · 03-25-2004, 12:20 PM

What a day, I just walked out of a local gun shop with a bag oÃ¢?? parts. A complete 1921 Luger in 9mm except the frame, plus 2 magazines for $85! Every part, spring and grips! (Not to mention a rear sight, this time I looked.)
If I may ask one more question, the original pistol is in .30 Luger, can I just put the 9mm upper on the frame and it work?
Thanks.

John Sabato · 03-25-2004, 12:40 PM

Great buy Walt, you got a DEAL! Did the shop owner have any idea what happened to the frame? Did he have any more 'parts kits" at that price? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

and YES, it may require some minor fitting or lapping to make sure that the function is smooth, but you are correct that you should be able to put either the .30 caliber or 9mm upper on your frame... I would replace the mainspring with the one for the 9mm... there is an article on how to do this by THOR in the Technical Information pages.

Headspace could possibly be an issue, but I doubt it...it is not very likely...

Walt · 03-25-2004, 12:55 PM

The frame (receiver) was destroyed. The shop owner has a deal with local law enforcement and courts. He buys weapons that have been ordered destroyed, destroys the receiver, (as you know, the receiver is technically the Ã¢??gunÃ¢?Â) after stripping all the parts off it. He has an odd assortment of Ã¢??stuffÃ¢?Â. I have seen some gun shops in my day, but this beats all. If he brought in one more box of ammo, there would be no place for the customers. Only three people can be in there at one time, thatÃ¢??s all the seats he has. The seats are placed so as not to be in the way when he is going out to his truck to get what ever it is you want. The store is overflowing, but what ever part, gun or ammo you want, its sure to be in the back of the truck. HeÃ¢??s the Mr. Haney of the gun world!
Sorry, I got the only Luger parts he has.

Lugerdoc · 03-26-2004, 08:33 AM

Walt, Is that Gun World in Elko, NV. or a different one? TH

John Sabato · 03-26-2004, 10:19 AM

I smell a LARGE parts purchase about to happen

Lugerdoc is on the prowl!

Walt · 03-26-2004, 10:41 AM

No sir, this is a small gun shop in Springfield, MO. I can send you the info if you like.

Walt · 03-26-2004, 01:42 PM

Lugerdoc,
PM sent.

Lugerdoc · 03-27-2004, 09:06 AM

John et al, I'm always on the prowl for German pistol parts, but haven't had any large buys lately. I'm currently waiting for some PO8 parts from Germany at high Euro prices, hoping that they will be better quality than the repro stuff that Sarco & GPC are selling. TH

03-23-2004, 09:34 PM	#1
Walt User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How dumb can I be?! I just purchased a Luger at a local gun shop. It is in well used condition, mismatched numbers, but the price was right for a shooter. After tearing it down for a good cleaning and oiling I noticed that the toggle unit was in excellent shape, 90% + original bluing, all matching numbers (56), but no rear sight! Guess I forgot to look for one on there! Is there a way to retrofit a rear sight (I knew the price was too good) on here, or does anyone need a real nice toggle for their artillery and would like to trade for a toggle with a sight? Well, I wanted a cheep shooter, but kinda hoped I could hit something when I shoot itÃ¢?Â¦ Any ideas would be appreciated.

03-24-2004, 08:21 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Walt, Unless you plan to "shoot from the hip", I have plenty of standard PO8 toggle assemblies available. Just let me know the date on your chamber, so I can supply the correct maker and whether your pistol is rust or salt blued and perhaps we can work a trade. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-24-2004, 10:33 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Welcome to the Lugerforum Walt... all good suggestions above. Lugerdoc is your quickest and safest option for a trade... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-24-2004, 12:34 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Pete, whether original or fabricated, IMHO it would have to be either an artillery luger or a Luger carbine rear toggle... There is enough bulk at the upper rear of the Luger that the removal of a rear sight would hardly make any difference in "snag-proofing" it. I can see no other reason why the toggle would not have a rear sight milled onto it in standard P-08 configuration. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-24-2004, 11:27 PM	#11
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Walt, I have a few extra toggle trains. I will be happy to trade you one with a rear sight for yours. If interested email me at hhclark@academicplanet.com. Hugh __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

03-24-2004, 12:48 AM	#2
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Walt, don't feel too bad about the mistake. You have an out by watching Ebay. You should be able to find what you are looking for there and maybe sell your artillery toggle for a profit. Watch the forums "For Sale" area. Maybe you can find what you are looking for there pretty cheap. Big Norm

03-24-2004, 10:55 AM	#5
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Hi Walt..! Maybe a side-mount scope or a grip laser sighting system..?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Seriously - don't feel badly - I know more then a few of us have done something similiar in our past - we just deny it.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> And - Welcome to the LugerForum!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

03-24-2004, 11:58 AM	#6
Walt User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hummm, a laser sight mounted on the rear toggle link, that would make quite a show every time you pulled the trigger! I'll have to think about this some! Thanks for the info, this is my 1st Luger, guess I was a little to excited to notice the little things, like a sight.

03-24-2004, 12:26 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Two questions : 1. Assuming this rear sightless toggle is in its original, factory configuration, what model would it belong to ? If any...? 2. Assuming the rear sight blade/notch was just filed down and the toggle refinished...why would someone do this to a luger ? Would it enhance shooting somehow ? Or was it an attempt to make it more snag-proof for pulling out of a pocket ? Just curious... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-24-2004, 12:55 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Walt, Does your new luger have a notch in the front/top of its receiver, as shown : This might confirm your gun may have been an Artillery model at some point-in-time... Also...is your chamber dated ? Regards, Pete...

03-24-2004, 06:34 PM	#10
Walt User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No, there is not a notch at the receiver, or a date, the toggle S/N does not match the lower. The condition of the pistol is good, the toggle is excellent, looks like a case of mis-matched parts. The lower is a 3 digit S/N, I guess that means it is early production?

03-25-2004, 12:20 PM	#12
Walt User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What a day, I just walked out of a local gun shop with a bag oÃ¢?? parts. A complete 1921 Luger in 9mm except the frame, plus 2 magazines for $85! Every part, spring and grips! (Not to mention a rear sight, this time I looked.) If I may ask one more question, the original pistol is in .30 Luger, can I just put the 9mm upper on the frame and it work? Thanks.

03-25-2004, 12:40 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Great buy Walt, you got a DEAL! Did the shop owner have any idea what happened to the frame? Did he have any more 'parts kits" at that price? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> and YES, it may require some minor fitting or lapping to make sure that the function is smooth, but you are correct that you should be able to put either the .30 caliber or 9mm upper on your frame... I would replace the mainspring with the one for the 9mm... there is an article on how to do this by THOR in the Technical Information pages. Headspace could possibly be an issue, but I doubt it...it is not very likely... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-25-2004, 12:55 PM	#14
Walt User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The frame (receiver) was destroyed. The shop owner has a deal with local law enforcement and courts. He buys weapons that have been ordered destroyed, destroys the receiver, (as you know, the receiver is technically the Ã¢??gunÃ¢?Â) after stripping all the parts off it. He has an odd assortment of Ã¢??stuffÃ¢?Â. I have seen some gun shops in my day, but this beats all. If he brought in one more box of ammo, there would be no place for the customers. Only three people can be in there at one time, thatÃ¢??s all the seats he has. The seats are placed so as not to be in the way when he is going out to his truck to get what ever it is you want. The store is overflowing, but what ever part, gun or ammo you want, its sure to be in the back of the truck. HeÃ¢??s the Mr. Haney of the gun world! Sorry, I got the only Luger parts he has.

03-26-2004, 08:33 AM	#15
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Walt, Is that Gun World in Elko, NV. or a different one? TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-26-2004, 10:19 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I smell a LARGE parts purchase about to happen Lugerdoc is on the prowl! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-26-2004, 10:41 AM	#17
Walt User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No sir, this is a small gun shop in Springfield, MO. I can send you the info if you like.

03-26-2004, 01:42 PM	#18
Walt User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Lugerdoc, PM sent.

03-27-2004, 09:06 AM	#19
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	John et al, I'm always on the prowl for German pistol parts, but haven't had any large buys lately. I'm currently waiting for some PO8 parts from Germany at high Euro prices, hoping that they will be better quality than the repro stuff that Sarco & GPC are selling. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net