bought first Luger..have questions!

[brickboy240]

Greetings!

Just by mistake, I have bought my first Luger. First, let me say, that I mainly collect Mauser rifles and Enfields, but have quite a few pistols as well, but did not have a Luger in my collection.

In a pawn shop in Waco TX, I found what I believe to be an East German re-work and bought it for 375 dollars.

What I have is a 1918 dated Erfurt P-08 with the bakelite grips and matte black finish (dead give-aways it is an EG re-work...right?). The pistol has all matching numbers and a bore that looks shiny and unfired. Everything is tight and as it should be and there is no pitting or big dings on the pistol. it does show some machining marks and honest use, but no abuse.

The magazine in in the white and has a wooden bottom. There are no marks at all on the magazine.

I took this pistol to the range and ran some FMJ 9mm mmo through the thing. It did NOT like the UMC ammo, but fed the Winchester white box stuff with no troubles. the Winnny ammo has a longer bullet...maybe thats why it liked it better. the pistol is fairly accurate and has less recoil than the Belgian Hi-Power I was shooting with it. If it had better sights, I could probably do some really good grouping with the thing! I also grappled with the grip angle - being used to 1911 and Hi-Power grip angles, I tended to throw everythign high with the Luger.

So...how did I do on price? I know the EG re-works are looked down upon..its an Erfurt...which makes it more undesirable, but its good condition and the fact that I don't own a Luger made me buy it. Do the EG pistols have any collector value? They will never be made again and the history of EG is short and will likely never happen again...are Cold War pistols not collectable?

(I have a throey that some day, Makarovs, Tokerevs and EG Lugers will be collector pieces)

Also, where can I find a correct holster that the VOPO would have used? All I see on E-bay are expensive WWI/II originals and repros.

I just thought I'd post about my first experience with the Pistole Parabellum...mine may be junk in most people's eyes, but I love it and it is a piece of history!

thanks!

-brickboy240

[Pete Ebbink]

Scott,

Sounds like you got a nice shooter with some WWI history...at a very good price.

Tha gun would fetch $ 650-700 here in CA-State gun shops...maybe a bit higher...

Have fun shooting her !

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[unspellable]

Any Luger that is in good mechanical condition and works well is worth $375 without regard to provenance.

The longer bullet in the Wally World Winchester special does help. The magazine is sensitive to the cartridge OAL. For some unknown reason the SAAMI maximum OAL is DWM's original minimum length. This is a large part of the Luger's reputation for poor reliability. Just because it says Luger on the end flap doesn't prove the ammo is Luger ammo!

[John Sabato]

Congrats on your getting a functioning Luger for that price, and I agree on your theory about future collectability... Welcome to the Lugerforum.

As far as an appropriate holster on Ebay... This is an example of an East German holster used for both P38 and P08... I frequently see them on ebay for a starting bid of $19.99



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...285201601&rd=1

Good luck.

[brickboy240]

Thanks everyone.

John, I have seen several holsters like the one you posted a photo of on ebay. there are a few on there now. I thought, since it did not look like a regular Luger military flap holster, it was a fake or for another pistol. (I regularly see Mauser slings/accessories mismarked by sellers on e-bay).

if this would be a "correct" holster...I think I'll pick one up. I already have an EG officers tunic and Vopo red armband and badge to go with it!

thanks,

-brickboy240

[brickboy240]

Heres something else I cannot figure out about this pistol. Since it was made in 1918, it was most likely used in the last days of WWI. It has Imperial German markings. However, it does not have any Nazi markings.

Was this pistol used during WWII or was it captured during WWI by the Russians? Could it have been a police pistol between the wars, then captured by Russian troops as they advanced through eastern Germany to Berlin?

I know for certain that it was made in 1918 and where it was made and for whom. I also know that it was re-furbed by the EGs/Russians and used as a police pistol by the grips, parkerized finish and starburst marking in the late 50s early 60s (probably to be replaced by a Mararov in the early 60s), but WHAT was the possible history of these peices between WWI and the Iron Curtain going up?

Anybody have a guess?

(oh, if the thing could talk!)

-brickboy240

[Edward Tinker]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by brickboy240:
<strong>Heres something else I cannot figure out about this pistol. Since it was made in 1918, it was most likely used in the last days of WWI. It has Imperial German markings. However, it does not have any Nazi markings.

Was this pistol used during WWII or was it captured during WWI by the Russians? Could it have been a police pistol between the wars, then captured by Russian troops as they advanced through eastern Germany to Berlin?
...Anybody have a guess?
-brickboy240</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Yes.

Otherwise, your guess is as good as any!
As an example; I know that there were many guns in storage, such as police, that simply did not receive any nazi markings. Yet have sear safties (that was required in 1933), but do not have mag safeties, (taken off the requirment list in 1937). So either they weren't required to get a mag safety, OR were in storage and thus didn't get one. My feeling is that many guns were officer guns, kept at home, in storage etc., and simply were never marked, but captured after the war, either by us, or the Russians.

I too believe these will come into their own right as collector pieces, but only those in nice shape, and obvious EG or Russian traits...

Ed

[brickboy240]

Yeah, thats why i bought an EG Vopo arm band and uniform and am looking for a EG holster.

The East German communist period was very short and unlike any other part of history. I know everybody likes Nazi guns for the same reason, but I think the Cold War period is very interesting and items from this period may be highly collectable in the future.

(I would not have bought this pistol if it had a swastika on it...the thought of owning a pistol that maybe was used to kill defenseless kids, women and old/sick people in a concentration camp, does not sit well with me...sorry)

Since it has a great bore, no rust or dings and all matching parts, I think its a worthy piece and with all the proper accessories I am acquiring, it ought to have some collector interest.

I collect Cold War/Iron Curtain surplus firearms and also have an EG Makarov, Polish TT-33 Tokerev, Yugoslavian Tokorev and a CZ-52, along with several Iron Curtain rifles.

I was actually glad it was an EG Luger that I stumbled upon.

(now..if I could only find a good Russian army issue Makarov)

-brickboy240

[Pete Ebbink]

Not sure if this is one you are looking for :

http://www.adamsguns.com/1232.jpg

[Lugerdoc]

John S. The photo that you posted is of a WEST GERMAN post war P38 holster. The most common DDR holster is a pebble grained cowhide P38 style soft shell with an additional flap at the gun butt to keep out the rain. Those used with the luger, usually have the pouch for a mag loading tool sewn into the inside of the top flap. TH

[SteveM]

Like this one? Except for the GI hanger on the back..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...286588798&rd=1

SteveM

[Malcolm P.]

Hey,

Just something to keep in mind about all Lugers. If they were part of the German armed forces in the period 1934-1945, they were part of the Nazi regime. Like it or not, lack of Nazi markings DOES NOT MEAN that the weapon was not issued to SS camp guards or other "unsavory" units. I have seen an Imperial Luger taken from a SS guard at one of the camps. On the other hand, most Nazi marked Lugers were issued to combat units that only shot armed Russian, English, or Americans. Moreover, the EG reworks were part of a repressive regime that many would regard as only marginally less evil than the Nazis. Additionally, these were weapons issued out to police that were responsible for lots of people disappearing in the aftermath of WWII.

[DougT]

Brickboy240, I have a suggestion: Send the gun to Thor and have him restore to it's original condition. He can install the proper style grips on it, and he will rust blue, restraw and fire blue it back to what it once was--an Imperial era Luger that many folks consider to be the best Lugers ever made. Forget all that Russian rework stuff--this gun needs to be taken back to what it once was. My first Luger is a 1917 Erfurt P.08, and it looked like a doorstop when I bought it. After Thor restored it, I didn't even know it was the same gun. Since your gun shoots well and has matching numbers--I think you would be extremely pleased with it restored. The cost of the restoration would be offset by the great low price you paid for it. Then you would have a true piece of history for your collection.
DougT

[Vlim]

Hi,

Here are some illustrations that may be helpfull here.

The VoPo Luger in the 1961 VoPo manual. It clearly shows the VoPo bakelite 'bullseye' grips:

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/vopo01_small.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/vopo01_small.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

This is a mint example of an East-German VoPo holster, used for the P08, P38 and Tokarev.

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/61vopo1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/61vopo1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Note that the East-Germans used a 4-digit supplier code (somewhat like the 3-digit reich codes). Supplier 1001 is well-known and can be found on the VoPo extruded magazines.
1001 = Haenel in Suhl. Haven't found any code-lists yet, though.

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/61vopo2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/61vopo2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

[Vlim]

Hi,

I will clearly and plainly advise AGAINST refinishing the VoPo to something it no longer is.

The VoPo versions will become collectibles in their own right and are a legitamite part of the Luger history. I believe no Luger collection is complete without one.

Just my 2 cents.

[brickboy240]

I agree. Although it looks like Thor is quite an artist and does amazingly good work, I have never refinished any of my military surplus arms and prefer to leave them as-is.

Yes, I believe that it has more character...made in the dying days of WWI, used by police or Weimar soldiers between the wars, captured by the Russians, re-worked and issued to a communist police force...quite a history, I'd say. More interesting to me, than some pristine trophy arm that sat in a crate or officer's locker for most of the war. Those types of military surplus arms never appealed to me.

-brickboy240

[Edward Tinker]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by brickboy240:
<strong>Yes, I believe that it has more character...made in the dying days of WWI, used by police or Weimar soldiers between the wars, captured by the Russians, re-worked and issued to a communist police force...quite a history, I'd say. -brickboy240</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well said, and a good reason to pick one up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[John Sabato]

I stand corrected by someone who really knows...

Lugerdoc... thanks for the correction... I was misinformed... But they are still nicely made holsters for the price, and I believe that since a P38 fits, I imagine that a Luger will also fit... but not as an example of an issued EG Luger holster.

[brickboy240]

Rick,

Nice pistol! You're grips are more reddish than mine and lighter on color. Mine are dark brown.

My EG re-work is in similar condition, but the parkerization is darker and it has no holster wear. I am also wondering if the EGs replaced the barrel, because the barrel shows alot more machining marks than the rest of the pistol, but has the same finish as the whole piece. It also has a bore that looks like a round has never gone down it. No way that went from 1918 through the Iron curtain years and the barrel is in that pristine condition.

I found an EG holster on e-bay and won it for 27 dollars...not bad, eh?

Now, I have heard that it is not adviseable to shoot my wooden based original magazine, because the base might crack...where can I find a new magazine that is reliable. I am not too cool on aftermarket mags for any pistols, due to past expereinces with 1911 and Hi-Power aftermarket units.

thanks,

brickboy240

[Vlim]

Hi,

Try the MecGar magazines. They're excellent.