What does a Luger cost?

Roadkill · 04-02-2003, 11:01 PM

Evening ya'll, this comes up sometimes and I got bored (Thornbirds is on tonight -again- and my wife and mother in law got the tv locked down, mother in law is German and doesn't understand a word of English but doesn't seem to matter, this is the third night straight), anyway, I started checking on prices of Lugers on the auction houses. This is what I got:

Guns and Ammo: 33 Lugers, total $29520, average is $895 per gun

Auction Arms: 11 Lugers, total $13150, average is $1195 per gun

Gunbroker.com: 45 Lugers, total $43910, average $976 per gun

Gunsamerica: 106 Lugers, $164150, average $1548
per gun

That works out to $1153.50 for a Luger. This includes shooters, artillerys, one KH, one Navy,eight or nine Swiss,(I left out the carbines, Russian Contracts, ect) and best of all was a parkerized all origonal 1936 Erfurt.

I'm done. Going out on the porch with my ugly dog Buster, least he doesn't care about Richard Chamberlain. What's a few fleas between friends?

rk

Stu · 04-03-2003, 07:10 PM

This brings up a question I could use an answer to; what is the differnece between gusandammo and gunbroker ? The sites appear identical ? I've never registered with gunsandammo but my gunbroker id allows me to log on. It displays my watch list and items bid and sold on gunbroker, I'm sort of convinced they're the same site under two names but that can't be if you get different items listed ?

Can anyone help with this particular confusion ?

John -Melb · 04-03-2003, 09:21 PM

Roadkill,
I don't know what a Luger is worth in your part of the world, but I can tell you what it will soon get you in my part.
After 1st Jan 2004, possession of a stock-standard P08 on a pistol club members licence will be worth - about eight years!

Navy · 04-03-2003, 10:38 PM

John-Melb,
My deepest regrets for what your government has done to you. We fight very hard to see that it doesn't happen here.
I suggest that there is some hope, if you and your mates will ORGANIZE, raise money and be VERY politically active.
There is only one issue and it is FREEDOM; this issue starts today, as it did in 1215 on Runneymeade Meadow with the Magna Carta. The people have the absolute right to be armed.

Organize, contribute time and money and vote the bastards out.

Tom A.

John Sabato · 04-04-2003, 11:08 AM

AMEN to that!

<img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />

Big Norm · 04-04-2003, 04:58 PM

I recently talked to an English gun dealer. He said that there is no law (in black and white) in England that requires an individual to have a rod soldiered in the barrel. But an individual citizen that does not have his gun deactivated can not get a license for a pistol and faces jail time for not having that license. An English, Section 5, gun dealer can have a maximum of 20 pistols, for sale guns, that are not deactivated.
We argued. He kept saying that there is not law in black and white. And I kept saying that an individual could not get a license unless his gun was deactivated. So there is a law in black and white. While I saw his point, he could not see mine. Where was Tac De Foley when I needed him?
Big Norm

JohnF · 04-04-2003, 06:03 PM

Hi Norm,
Tacfoley may correct me on this but I'm fairly sure that your dealer was wrong. There are specifications governing the deactivation of pistols and a clear part of that spec is that the barrel must be blocked by a pin or similar object, which is welded into place. A deactivated firearm must have a certificate of deactivation issued by either the Birmingham or London Proof House. To get the certificate, the pistol must be inspected and stamped. If the barrel isn't blocked then it won't get a certificate and is therefore considered to be a live pistol. Live pistols are illegal in the hands of private citizens here with two exceptions:

1) Pistols appearing on the government list of obsolete calibres such as Reichsrevolvers.
2) Historic pistols made before 1919 but of current calibres such as Imperial Lugers. These may be owned on a section 7 permit but only under strict conditions and may only be kept in a designated secure location - of which there are very few.

No licence of any kind is required to keep deactivated pistols although they must have their certificates.
In short, the law requires most pistols to be deactivated other than the above exceptions. Barrel blocking is part of the spec therefore it is a legal requirement.
I can't comment on the section 5 dealer requirements other than to say that I recently visited a dealer who had an awful lot more than 20 live pistols in his armoury. It is a well respected company and I very much doubt if they would risk their good name and their licence by lawbreaking.
I hope that this helps,
Best regards from the UK,
John
(Collector of finely engineered German 9mm paperweights)

Mark A · 04-04-2003, 11:05 PM

I'm a bit confused. If a dealer has "live pistols" but nobody can own them, then to whom does the dealer deal?

ArtC · 04-05-2003, 01:35 AM

Hi all, my first post, still learning about Lugers,but maybe everybody over in England should just get Dealer's Licenses.

JohnF · 04-05-2003, 05:28 AM

Hi Art and Mark,
To answer your questions:
1) It's considerably easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than to get a section 5 dealer's licence in the UK.
2) The dealers sell internationally. They often also sell long guns/shotguns etc which can be held in this country.
Cheers,
John

Big Norm · 04-05-2003, 01:15 PM

Howdy JohnF,
your response to Mark is correct (as I understand it). The English dealer that I talked to was trying to make a point by frequently saying that there was no law "IN BLACK AND WHITE" requiring subjects to deactivate their guns. My understanding is that the lawmakers wanted to create a loophole for Section 5 international dealers. There is a law "IN BLACK AND WHITE" that requires all other subjects to get a license for a weapon. But you can not get a license unless the gun has been deactivated and approved as you described. I personally think this is a bit of legal Tomfoolery.

If you wish, I have this Englishmans (he made a point of saying he was not British) address in London as well as his email address. I will be happy to foreward it to you. Just email me your request. In spite of our go around on legalese, he really was a nice guy. He enjoyed teasing some Canadian gentlemen (also not British or even English) who had a table next to his. We had a delightful conversation at the Novi, Michigan gun show about Kaiser Wilhelm II and the fact that the Kaisers mother was Queen Victorias eldest daughter. We also discussed prices of Borchardt pistols in Europe (we were both eyeing a minty DWM Borchardt at the show).
Aloha,
Big Norm

04-02-2003, 11:01 PM	#1
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	What does a Luger cost? Evening ya'll, this comes up sometimes and I got bored (Thornbirds is on tonight -again- and my wife and mother in law got the tv locked down, mother in law is German and doesn't understand a word of English but doesn't seem to matter, this is the third night straight), anyway, I started checking on prices of Lugers on the auction houses. This is what I got: Guns and Ammo: 33 Lugers, total $29520, average is $895 per gun Auction Arms: 11 Lugers, total $13150, average is $1195 per gun Gunbroker.com: 45 Lugers, total $43910, average $976 per gun Gunsamerica: 106 Lugers, $164150, average $1548 per gun That works out to $1153.50 for a Luger. This includes shooters, artillerys, one KH, one Navy,eight or nine Swiss,(I left out the carbines, Russian Contracts, ect) and best of all was a parkerized all origonal 1936 Erfurt. I'm done. Going out on the porch with my ugly dog Buster, least he doesn't care about Richard Chamberlain. What's a few fleas between friends? rk

04-04-2003, 11:08 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	AMEN to that! <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-04-2003, 11:05 PM	#8
Mark A User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Wheat Ridge, CO Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm a bit confused. If a dealer has "live pistols" but nobody can own them, then to whom does the dealer deal? __________________ Mark

04-03-2003, 07:10 PM	#2
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	This brings up a question I could use an answer to; what is the differnece between gusandammo and gunbroker ? The sites appear identical ? I've never registered with gunsandammo but my gunbroker id allows me to log on. It displays my watch list and items bid and sold on gunbroker, I'm sort of convinced they're the same site under two names but that can't be if you get different items listed ? Can anyone help with this particular confusion ?

04-03-2003, 09:21 PM	#3
John -Melb User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Peoples Republic of Australia! Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Roadkill, I don't know what a Luger is worth in your part of the world, but I can tell you what it will soon get you in my part. After 1st Jan 2004, possession of a stock-standard P08 on a pistol club members licence will be worth - about eight years!

04-03-2003, 10:38 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	John-Melb, My deepest regrets for what your government has done to you. We fight very hard to see that it doesn't happen here. I suggest that there is some hope, if you and your mates will ORGANIZE, raise money and be VERY politically active. There is only one issue and it is FREEDOM; this issue starts today, as it did in 1215 on Runneymeade Meadow with the Magna Carta. The people have the absolute right to be armed. Organize, contribute time and money and vote the bastards out. Tom A.

04-04-2003, 04:58 PM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I recently talked to an English gun dealer. He said that there is no law (in black and white) in England that requires an individual to have a rod soldiered in the barrel. But an individual citizen that does not have his gun deactivated can not get a license for a pistol and faces jail time for not having that license. An English, Section 5, gun dealer can have a maximum of 20 pistols, for sale guns, that are not deactivated. We argued. He kept saying that there is not law in black and white. And I kept saying that an individual could not get a license unless his gun was deactivated. So there is a law in black and white. While I saw his point, he could not see mine. Where was Tac De Foley when I needed him? Big Norm

04-04-2003, 06:03 PM	#7
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi Norm, Tacfoley may correct me on this but I'm fairly sure that your dealer was wrong. There are specifications governing the deactivation of pistols and a clear part of that spec is that the barrel must be blocked by a pin or similar object, which is welded into place. A deactivated firearm must have a certificate of deactivation issued by either the Birmingham or London Proof House. To get the certificate, the pistol must be inspected and stamped. If the barrel isn't blocked then it won't get a certificate and is therefore considered to be a live pistol. Live pistols are illegal in the hands of private citizens here with two exceptions: 1) Pistols appearing on the government list of obsolete calibres such as Reichsrevolvers. 2) Historic pistols made before 1919 but of current calibres such as Imperial Lugers. These may be owned on a section 7 permit but only under strict conditions and may only be kept in a designated secure location - of which there are very few. No licence of any kind is required to keep deactivated pistols although they must have their certificates. In short, the law requires most pistols to be deactivated other than the above exceptions. Barrel blocking is part of the spec therefore it is a legal requirement. I can't comment on the section 5 dealer requirements other than to say that I recently visited a dealer who had an awful lot more than 20 live pistols in his armoury. It is a well respected company and I very much doubt if they would risk their good name and their licence by lawbreaking. I hope that this helps, Best regards from the UK, John (Collector of finely engineered German 9mm paperweights)

04-05-2003, 01:35 AM	#9
ArtC New User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi all, my first post, still learning about Lugers,but maybe everybody over in England should just get Dealer's Licenses.

04-05-2003, 05:28 AM	#10
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi Art and Mark, To answer your questions: 1) It's considerably easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than to get a section 5 dealer's licence in the UK. 2) The dealers sell internationally. They often also sell long guns/shotguns etc which can be held in this country. Cheers, John

04-05-2003, 01:15 PM	#11
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Howdy JohnF, your response to Mark is correct (as I understand it). The English dealer that I talked to was trying to make a point by frequently saying that there was no law "IN BLACK AND WHITE" requiring subjects to deactivate their guns. My understanding is that the lawmakers wanted to create a loophole for Section 5 international dealers. There is a law "IN BLACK AND WHITE" that requires all other subjects to get a license for a weapon. But you can not get a license unless the gun has been deactivated and approved as you described. I personally think this is a bit of legal Tomfoolery. If you wish, I have this Englishmans (he made a point of saying he was not British) address in London as well as his email address. I will be happy to foreward it to you. Just email me your request. In spite of our go around on legalese, he really was a nice guy. He enjoyed teasing some Canadian gentlemen (also not British or even English) who had a table next to his. We had a delightful conversation at the Novi, Michigan gun show about Kaiser Wilhelm II and the fact that the Kaisers mother was Queen Victorias eldest daughter. We also discussed prices of Borchardt pistols in Europe (we were both eyeing a minty DWM Borchardt at the show). Aloha, Big Norm