Just curious?

Roadkill · 11-04-2003, 09:54 PM

Were the .32s considered a primary combat gun for WWI/II Wehrmacht or as secondary self defense and police firearms? I can easily see the Luger,P38, BHP, Star, Radom and Astra as what I would consider taking into a gunfight. But not the PP, HSC, Browning 1922, Beretta 1934, Ruby, or Orteges as combat guns. I most likely left out some, but you get my point.

rk

Sieger · 11-04-2003, 11:47 PM

Roadkill:

I quess the question would be by whom?

The Americans didn't consider a 9mm an adequate combat arm at all at that time.

The Russians considered their little .30 Tok. more than adequate for both pistol and submachine gun useage.

The British were mixed on the subject, with their .455 Webleys and 9mm Stens.

The French had their 7.65 Long Colt Clones and no submachine guns.

The Italians had their .380 Model 34s, their 7.65 Model 35s, as well as, a very nice Beretta 9mm submachine gun.

To my knowledge, the PPs, PPKs and other similar small automatics were issued to higher ranking officers and naturally the police.

Were they used in combat by the Germans? Few probably were.

Sieger

Doubs · 11-05-2003, 12:38 AM

RK, my next door neighbor when I was growing up was a Glider Infantry Veteran of the 17th Airborne Division. During "Operation Varsity", the Airborne assault across the Rhine, his squad was tasked with capturing a bridge across a canal or river near Wessel. There was a combination farm house and barn on the far side of the bridge and held by the Germans. Using covering fire to keep the German's heads down, they crossed the bridge one by one. He told me that was the longest run of his life!

Once everyone was across they demanded the surrender of the German garrison who refused. They then used a bazooka to set fire to the hay in the attached barn which caused the Germans to give up. He said they were very surprised to find that the Germans outnumbered them by quite a few men!

All this to say that from one of the Germans he captured a JP Sauer & Sohns Model 38H pistol and holster in 7.65mm or .32ACP. I don't know the rank of the prisoner he removed the pistol from but I can ask. I've seen the pistol once as he kept it in the attic and the last time I inquired about it, he'd given it to his oldest son. It was in pristine condition when I saw it but that was many years ago.

Lugerdoc · 11-05-2003, 09:38 AM

In both WW1 & 2, German officers were required to purchase their own private pistols. I believe that their own taste and budgets account in great part for the wide variety of pistols encountered at the end of the war. When called to the front, I'm told that they were elgible to be issued standard military issue 9mms, which they would turn in when relieved and then have to depend on their own little pistol and dress holster. Naturally, some enlisted who were not expected to see much combat, were issued second line (generally non German made 32s) side arms: bomber crews, medics, some MG crews, etc. See Bob Whittington's Vol.4 of "German Pistols & Holsters 1934/1945 for more details. Th

11-04-2003, 09:54 PM	#1
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Just curious? Were the .32s considered a primary combat gun for WWI/II Wehrmacht or as secondary self defense and police firearms? I can easily see the Luger,P38, BHP, Star, Radom and Astra as what I would consider taking into a gunfight. But not the PP, HSC, Browning 1922, Beretta 1934, Ruby, or Orteges as combat guns. I most likely left out some, but you get my point. rk

11-05-2003, 09:38 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	In both WW1 & 2, German officers were required to purchase their own private pistols. I believe that their own taste and budgets account in great part for the wide variety of pistols encountered at the end of the war. When called to the front, I'm told that they were elgible to be issued standard military issue 9mms, which they would turn in when relieved and then have to depend on their own little pistol and dress holster. Naturally, some enlisted who were not expected to see much combat, were issued second line (generally non German made 32s) side arms: bomber crews, medics, some MG crews, etc. See Bob Whittington's Vol.4 of "German Pistols & Holsters 1934/1945 for more details. Th __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-04-2003, 11:47 PM	#2
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Roadkill: I quess the question would be by whom? The Americans didn't consider a 9mm an adequate combat arm at all at that time. The Russians considered their little .30 Tok. more than adequate for both pistol and submachine gun useage. The British were mixed on the subject, with their .455 Webleys and 9mm Stens. The French had their 7.65 Long Colt Clones and no submachine guns. The Italians had their .380 Model 34s, their 7.65 Model 35s, as well as, a very nice Beretta 9mm submachine gun. To my knowledge, the PPs, PPKs and other similar small automatics were issued to higher ranking officers and naturally the police. Were they used in combat by the Germans? Few probably were. Sieger

11-05-2003, 12:38 AM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,673 Thanks: 773 Thanked 1,619 Times in 528 Posts	RK, my next door neighbor when I was growing up was a Glider Infantry Veteran of the 17th Airborne Division. During "Operation Varsity", the Airborne assault across the Rhine, his squad was tasked with capturing a bridge across a canal or river near Wessel. There was a combination farm house and barn on the far side of the bridge and held by the Germans. Using covering fire to keep the German's heads down, they crossed the bridge one by one. He told me that was the longest run of his life! Once everyone was across they demanded the surrender of the German garrison who refused. They then used a bazooka to set fire to the hay in the attached barn which caused the Germans to give up. He said they were very surprised to find that the Germans outnumbered them by quite a few men! All this to say that from one of the Germans he captured a JP Sauer & Sohns Model 38H pistol and holster in 7.65mm or .32ACP. I don't know the rank of the prisoner he removed the pistol from but I can ask. I've seen the pistol once as he kept it in the attic and the last time I inquired about it, he'd given it to his oldest son. It was in pristine condition when I saw it but that was many years ago.