Contemplating or considering a sale

Navy · 07-28-2003, 03:02 AM

All,
As some of you may know, I am the owner of the von Ribbentrop Luger, as portrayed in Jan's book. The provenance is iron-clad and the paper trail, complete with newspaper stories goes back to 1945. This is the real deal.

After the purchase, over the years,I have assembled a great deal of associated material, such as his autographed photo in an SS general's uniform (an honorary rank), a photo of von Ribbentrop on the West Front wearing a P-08 holster (?), autographs, documents and many, many photographs and original news clippimgs associated with Von Ribbentrop as a diplomat and during the trial. From a more important historical perspective, present also is personal eye witness information from the Lieutanant who was OIC at the execution and also from the Captain physician who was present and did the "pronouncement" following the deliverance of this man to justice.

I believe this is a very rare and significant grouping and would like to get from the group a sense of it's estimated worth.

Thanks,
Tom A.

Edward Tinker · 07-28-2003, 04:01 AM

Tom, let me put a stab into this and try to make an educated guess:

1. I would say that one or two autographed items would be the bulk of those kind of items likely to bring that portion of the collection up. So, how much does a former top Nazi autograph bring? I would imagine $500.

2. His photo and autograph, with at least a 50% possibility if not higher that the gun in the photo, IS the same one in your safe, I would think this photo if original and not a copy would bring at least another $500.

3. Documentation of the trial and eyewitness accounts, I imagine would add another $1,000.

4. Assorted papers and such is nice to have, but probably only brings the value up another $500.

5. The gun and rig, is harder for me, a 1909 gun, so it is an early one, its 1944 holster, loading tool and extra magazine, I would venture a guess at $1500 - $1800.

6. The known provenance and subsequent posting prominently in Jan's Weimar Lugers, I would say adds another $4,000 - $6000?

I would say that it should be worth $8,000 - $10,300, of course you might have paid more for it and these are simply guesses on my part, but I think they are fairly educated guesses? Although at an auction of the right collectors, it could be worth up to $15,000, possibly more.

To further add fuel to the fire, it is one of the few Lugers I know of that is documented as belonging to a high party official, his name is known to scholars and history buffs and so that would not surprise me if the valuation should not be much higher.

Ed

John Sabato · 07-28-2003, 04:11 PM

All I can say is WOW Tom... it is definitely more than I have...

I think you should auction it and set the reserve at your minimum return on your investment... that way you can't lose!

Navy · 07-29-2003, 01:40 AM

All,
I have been offered, and declined, a great deal of money (More than I paid for my first house) for this piece. Looking at the results of some of the auction houses, I see PPKs with provenance to SS generals going for $50K +. Mebbe I should just sit on this a bit longer.
Tom A.

John Sabato · 07-29-2003, 09:35 PM

Seems like it could only go UP in value Tom.

Big Norm · 07-30-2003, 01:24 AM

TomA,
somehow, I think that this is too important a historical assembly for any individual. I keep thinking of the most expensive pistol in the world that was given to a museum for a five million dollars tax write off. It was a gold engraved Colt given to a Turkish sultan by Mr Colt. I never believed the gun was worth that much, but it was a hellava tax write-off. All you would need is for someone to offer, for example only, 2-3 million for the collection and that might establish value. Just an alternative thought.

Then again, if you don't have the income to warrant a tax write off this large, maybe there is someone on this forum who does. This forum has a wide range of people on it. Food for thought.

I know that I would like to see your collection and read the documents.
Big Norm

Roadkill · 07-30-2003, 02:44 AM

The more rare and more valuable an item at the same time restricts the availability of interested and potential clients. Value is irrelevant if the cost is prohibitive. One either lowers the cost which increases the potential for purchase OR locates a new potential market with means and then develops the interest. If I were to wish to sell said item knowing the limits of the market here then I would consider developing a market elsewhere. Let's see, German General, German pistol, German notoriety, executed in Germany, German photos, German autographs, renaissance in German nationalism, Germany is an industrial nation with lots of German money, wonder where I might could sell it?

rk

Big Norm · 07-30-2003, 06:08 AM

RK,
Germany has serious problems with the goods associated with the Nazi era. They would sooner forget that that era happened. How about Brazil or Argentina? There is big time money there too.
Big Norm

Vlim · 07-30-2003, 04:43 PM

Hi,

I agree with Norm. The best place to part with nazi memorabilia is still the US. They are still too much of a 'politically incorrect' subject in most European countries.

07-28-2003, 03:02 AM	#1
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Contemplating or considering a sale All, As some of you may know, I am the owner of the von Ribbentrop Luger, as portrayed in Jan's book. The provenance is iron-clad and the paper trail, complete with newspaper stories goes back to 1945. This is the real deal. After the purchase, over the years,I have assembled a great deal of associated material, such as his autographed photo in an SS general's uniform (an honorary rank), a photo of von Ribbentrop on the West Front wearing a P-08 holster (?), autographs, documents and many, many photographs and original news clippimgs associated with Von Ribbentrop as a diplomat and during the trial. From a more important historical perspective, present also is personal eye witness information from the Lieutanant who was OIC at the execution and also from the Captain physician who was present and did the "pronouncement" following the deliverance of this man to justice. I believe this is a very rare and significant grouping and would like to get from the group a sense of it's estimated worth. Thanks, Tom A.

07-28-2003, 04:01 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Tom, let me put a stab into this and try to make an educated guess: 1. I would say that one or two autographed items would be the bulk of those kind of items likely to bring that portion of the collection up. So, how much does a former top Nazi autograph bring? I would imagine $500. 2. His photo and autograph, with at least a 50% possibility if not higher that the gun in the photo, IS the same one in your safe, I would think this photo if original and not a copy would bring at least another $500. 3. Documentation of the trial and eyewitness accounts, I imagine would add another $1,000. 4. Assorted papers and such is nice to have, but probably only brings the value up another $500. 5. The gun and rig, is harder for me, a 1909 gun, so it is an early one, its 1944 holster, loading tool and extra magazine, I would venture a guess at $1500 - $1800. 6. The known provenance and subsequent posting prominently in Jan's Weimar Lugers, I would say adds another $4,000 - $6000? I would say that it should be worth $8,000 - $10,300, of course you might have paid more for it and these are simply guesses on my part, but I think they are fairly educated guesses? Although at an auction of the right collectors, it could be worth up to $15,000, possibly more. To further add fuel to the fire, it is one of the few Lugers I know of that is documented as belonging to a high party official, his name is known to scholars and history buffs and so that would not surprise me if the valuation should not be much higher. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-28-2003, 04:11 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	All I can say is WOW Tom... it is definitely more than I have... I think you should auction it and set the reserve at your minimum return on your investment... that way you can't lose! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-29-2003, 09:35 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Seems like it could only go UP in value Tom. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-29-2003, 01:40 AM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, I have been offered, and declined, a great deal of money (More than I paid for my first house) for this piece. Looking at the results of some of the auction houses, I see PPKs with provenance to SS generals going for $50K +. Mebbe I should just sit on this a bit longer. Tom A.

07-30-2003, 01:24 AM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	TomA, somehow, I think that this is too important a historical assembly for any individual. I keep thinking of the most expensive pistol in the world that was given to a museum for a five million dollars tax write off. It was a gold engraved Colt given to a Turkish sultan by Mr Colt. I never believed the gun was worth that much, but it was a hellava tax write-off. All you would need is for someone to offer, for example only, 2-3 million for the collection and that might establish value. Just an alternative thought. Then again, if you don't have the income to warrant a tax write off this large, maybe there is someone on this forum who does. This forum has a wide range of people on it. Food for thought. I know that I would like to see your collection and read the documents. Big Norm

07-30-2003, 02:44 AM	#7
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	The more rare and more valuable an item at the same time restricts the availability of interested and potential clients. Value is irrelevant if the cost is prohibitive. One either lowers the cost which increases the potential for purchase OR locates a new potential market with means and then develops the interest. If I were to wish to sell said item knowing the limits of the market here then I would consider developing a market elsewhere. Let's see, German General, German pistol, German notoriety, executed in Germany, German photos, German autographs, renaissance in German nationalism, Germany is an industrial nation with lots of German money, wonder where I might could sell it? rk

07-30-2003, 06:08 AM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	RK, Germany has serious problems with the goods associated with the Nazi era. They would sooner forget that that era happened. How about Brazil or Argentina? There is big time money there too. Big Norm

07-30-2003, 04:43 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, I agree with Norm. The best place to part with nazi memorabilia is still the US. They are still too much of a 'politically incorrect' subject in most European countries.