how do i find out

jean · 07-03-2003, 12:38 PM

i have said here i own 2 lugers i posted a pic of them now i want to find out there history i have some clue to the history of both lugers now i want to see if its true...i can provide any and all info if i am told what to provide...maybe some one can lead me in the right areas to find out the history origanl person/persons they were issued to and so on...i guess im tring to comfirm the providance on them...here is the pic of them i can of cource provide more detailed pics just tell me what of and ill do so..

thx

Edward Tinker · 07-03-2003, 01:01 PM

It is difficult to find out info on a specific gun / owner. Being military guns they were issued to a person, turned in, reissued etc. There are exceptions, officers and NCO's who became officers many times were required to buy their own pistol. However, unless the gun is unit marked, has documentation etc., then it is the word of the person that told you. Written records, a written or noterized statement all help, but are still "their" word.

Ed

mauro · 07-03-2003, 01:47 PM

Jean,
I have placed your topic here, because of it is not related to the Artillery model.
Ciao

Big Norm · 07-03-2003, 02:45 PM

Jean,
the top Luger looks like a customized target gun. Its identity has therefore been lost as a collector piece or even type of Luger. If you want to find out who customized it, then thats another story.

There is not enough in your picture of the second Luger to see just what it is.
Big Norm

Ron Wood · 07-03-2003, 03:11 PM

Jean,

Norm is correct that the target Luger has no provinance other than the individual who customized it.

For the S/42 it is virtually impossible to trace the original individual to whom it was issued. There were few records maintained and of the few that existed most were destroyed by war and time. It is rare for a common military Luger to be associated with an individual, and usually this is only loosely established by family records or the name of the individual written inside the holster, and even then you seldom know if the Luger actually was the one carried in that holster.

This topic comes up frequently by new collectors who would like to know the history of their Lugers. Unfortunately the answer is disappointing. Edward Tinker stated the situation very well.

jean · 07-03-2003, 03:53 PM

well here are a few pics that may help...the s/42 was captured from a colonal out side of Auswitz and the other artillery was a canadian marks mans in the millitay and won 8 target champion ships with it. and i believe it was J Dewey that put it together for him as thats what is on the barrel any way here are the pics i can get the docs of the canadian colonal that got it as a war trofy. its well documented that he was there and that he did take the serender so i have no reason to not believe him...ill get it in writing and the name of the officer he got it from to...that should help..

Ron Wood · 07-03-2003, 06:07 PM

Nice G-Date! The information you already have on your Lugers is probably the most you can find out about them. A letter from the Canadian marksman or some other documentation attesting to his ownership and the championships he won with it may have some value to future collectors.

A letter from the Colonel stating from whom he captured the S/42 and perhaps the "surrender papers" would go a long way toward establishing provenance and be of much interest. However, it does not absolutely guarantee that such documentation would be accepted by some collectors as establishing original ownership.

I would recommend obtaining as much documentation as you can and keep them with the Lugers. Every little bit helps in preserving history. Thank you for a look at a couple of very nice Lugers.

jean · 07-03-2003, 06:52 PM

how do i find out the date of the G s/42 model

Jimbo · 07-03-2003, 07:10 PM

Hi Jean,

All G-code Mausers were manufactured in 1935. 1934 Mausers were marked with a "K" to hide the date of manufacture. 1935 Mausers were marked with a "G" instead of the date. In 1936 and thereafter, all Mauser Lugers were stamped with the year of manufacture.

Jimbo

jean · 07-03-2003, 08:23 PM

thank you...so G = 1935..cool

Herb · 07-03-2003, 10:40 PM

Jean if you do get the German's name and you have some time to do research give this a try.

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/research_topics/captured_german _records/berlin_document_center.html

Lugerdoc · 07-04-2003, 08:33 AM

Jean, If customizer Dewey or his company is still in business, he can probably tell you the buyer of this luger from the serial number. Then it would be a matter of finding his history. TH

George Anderson · 07-04-2003, 09:05 AM

I don't want to be rude, but isn't Auschwitz in Poland? Wasn't it, therefore, captured by the Reds?

Jim Keenan · 07-04-2003, 11:46 PM

George is correct. Auschwitz is and was in Poland, and I didn't think any troops from the Western Allies got that far east (unless the allied officer was Russian, or the story is, well, not quite true).

BTW, Auschwitz is the German spelling; the Polish name is Oswiecim, and that is what is shown on most modern maps. It is near Krakow.

As for original ownership, the U.S. at least does not have that information for its own weapons, let alone for enemy weapons. Any such trace attempts are almost always a waste of time.

Jim

07-03-2003, 12:38 PM	#1
jean User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	how do i find out i have said here i own 2 lugers i posted a pic of them now i want to find out there history i have some clue to the history of both lugers now i want to see if its true...i can provide any and all info if i am told what to provide...maybe some one can lead me in the right areas to find out the history origanl person/persons they were issued to and so on...i guess im tring to comfirm the providance on them...here is the pic of them i can of cource provide more detailed pics just tell me what of and ill do so.. thx __________________ I AM THEREFORE I DO

07-03-2003, 01:01 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,917 Thanks: 1,996 Thanked 4,508 Times in 2,082 Posts	It is difficult to find out info on a specific gun / owner. Being military guns they were issued to a person, turned in, reissued etc. There are exceptions, officers and NCO's who became officers many times were required to buy their own pistol. However, unless the gun is unit marked, has documentation etc., then it is the word of the person that told you. Written records, a written or noterized statement all help, but are still "their" word. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-03-2003, 01:47 PM	#3
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Jean, I have placed your topic here, because of it is not related to the Artillery model. Ciao __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

07-03-2003, 03:11 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,994 Thanks: 1,070 Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,681 Posts	Jean, Norm is correct that the target Luger has no provinance other than the individual who customized it. For the S/42 it is virtually impossible to trace the original individual to whom it was issued. There were few records maintained and of the few that existed most were destroyed by war and time. It is rare for a common military Luger to be associated with an individual, and usually this is only loosely established by family records or the name of the individual written inside the holster, and even then you seldom know if the Luger actually was the one carried in that holster. This topic comes up frequently by new collectors who would like to know the history of their Lugers. Unfortunately the answer is disappointing. Edward Tinker stated the situation very well. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-03-2003, 03:53 PM	#6
jean User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	well here are a few pics that may help...the s/42 was captured from a colonal out side of Auswitz and the other artillery was a canadian marks mans in the millitay and won 8 target champion ships with it. and i believe it was J Dewey that put it together for him as thats what is on the barrel any way here are the pics i can get the docs of the canadian colonal that got it as a war trofy. its well documented that he was there and that he did take the serender so i have no reason to not believe him...ill get it in writing and the name of the officer he got it from to...that should help.. __________________ I AM THEREFORE I DO

07-03-2003, 02:45 PM	#4
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Jean, the top Luger looks like a customized target gun. Its identity has therefore been lost as a collector piece or even type of Luger. If you want to find out who customized it, then thats another story. There is not enough in your picture of the second Luger to see just what it is. Big Norm

07-03-2003, 06:07 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,994 Thanks: 1,070 Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,681 Posts	Nice G-Date! The information you already have on your Lugers is probably the most you can find out about them. A letter from the Canadian marksman or some other documentation attesting to his ownership and the championships he won with it may have some value to future collectors. A letter from the Colonel stating from whom he captured the S/42 and perhaps the "surrender papers" would go a long way toward establishing provenance and be of much interest. However, it does not absolutely guarantee that such documentation would be accepted by some collectors as establishing original ownership. I would recommend obtaining as much documentation as you can and keep them with the Lugers. Every little bit helps in preserving history. Thank you for a look at a couple of very nice Lugers. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-03-2003, 06:52 PM	#8
jean User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	how do i find out the date of the G s/42 model __________________ I AM THEREFORE I DO

07-03-2003, 07:10 PM	#9
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Jean, All G-code Mausers were manufactured in 1935. 1934 Mausers were marked with a "K" to hide the date of manufacture. 1935 Mausers were marked with a "G" instead of the date. In 1936 and thereafter, all Mauser Lugers were stamped with the year of manufacture. Jimbo

07-03-2003, 08:23 PM	#10
jean User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thank you...so G = 1935..cool __________________ I AM THEREFORE I DO

07-03-2003, 10:40 PM	#11
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Jean if you do get the German's name and you have some time to do research give this a try. http://www.archives.gov/research_room/research_topics/captured_german _records/berlin_document_center.html __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

07-04-2003, 08:33 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Jean, If customizer Dewey or his company is still in business, he can probably tell you the buyer of this luger from the serial number. Then it would be a matter of finding his history. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-04-2003, 09:05 AM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	I don't want to be rude, but isn't Auschwitz in Poland? Wasn't it, therefore, captured by the Reds?

07-04-2003, 11:46 PM	#14
Jim Keenan User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	George is correct. Auschwitz is and was in Poland, and I didn't think any troops from the Western Allies got that far east (unless the allied officer was Russian, or the story is, well, not quite true). BTW, Auschwitz is the German spelling; the Polish name is Oswiecim, and that is what is shown on most modern maps. It is near Krakow. As for original ownership, the U.S. at least does not have that information for its own weapons, let alone for enemy weapons. Any such trace attempts are almost always a waste of time. Jim