Post ATF inspection report

Daniel · 03-28-2004, 10:09 PM

Well, it's over , kinda like going in for a root canal, lots of anxiety...but when it's over, you think.. "that wasn't so bad ".
The night before inspection I verified all entries against serial #'s in my C&R book,, then laid them out on the dining room table (covered with a sheet) in the same order in which they were entered in my "BOUND" book. There were 27 Lugers & 2 frames. SHE only was interested in inspecting those that were aquired through "THEIR" C&R license. She had a little trouble finding the luger serial # location , but after a little instruction , she did OK. She would read the description of the Luger and recite the serial # and I would pass the piece to her , after verfication ,she passed it back to me,we continued through the listings.She said I kept VG records and gave me "A" in penmanship. <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
It only took about 30 minutes to complete the inventory and then she reveiwed the C&R legal requirements. Reviewed LOST or STOLEN , Mutiple sales,Change of address, etc forms. Offered to send me added info in the mail on "Does & Don't" of the license holder.
SHE was very congenial, but professional. At the end of inspection and the informational we reviewed a check list of her interview and she asked me to attest to the completion of her work and we both signed the form, I'll receive a copy.
She did record about 4 or 5 transactions while she was telling me about the ATF 800 number to check on the authenticity of FFL #'s .
Oh, she asked where I purchased my collection ,Gun Shows,other Collectors, Internet, etc. Said she usually does Business' with FFL 01 class, but this year there is emphasis on C&R's.......so look out they are coming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> heh...heh...

ToggleTop · 03-28-2004, 11:22 PM

Daniel,

I am glad your inspection went well. I have one question related to just what is considered to be a "Bound Book"? What is meant by this term? Does it mean is has to be a ledger type bound book? I keep my records in a three ring binder with numbered pages in it. Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Daniel · 03-29-2004, 09:27 AM

Toggle Top,
I have the " Dealers'Firearms Record Book ". It's available from "PFRB Company",
PO Box 1242, Bloomington, Il.,61702
Tel.# 800-914-5464
and costs about ten bucks.

Daniel · 03-29-2004, 09:32 AM

Toggle, I don't think a three ring binder will fly with the ATF.Call and ask them....

ToggleTop · 03-29-2004, 12:16 PM

Hello Daniel,

Thank you for the information. I ordered the bound book just a few minutes ago and it is less than $10.00. Your information made it very easy for me to get the book. I appreciate that. I will now have to transfer everything to the bound book which will take a little time.

Best Regards,

Pete Ebbink · 03-29-2004, 01:15 PM

Hello Daniel,

I have a question and a comment :

Question - Did you have the option of having the inspection occur at the local BATF office ? If yes, I would think that would be much less intrusive than opening up one's home. I realize that would entail one to bring all guns and records to the BATF office (not sure how that would work with security nowdays...).

Comment - Maybe this 03 FFL inspection is just another way to "double-check" what the 01 FFL's are reporting. If this inspector recorded 4-5 of your transactions with 01 FFL's, I would hope the 01 FFL's books also reflect their sales to you...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Daniel · 03-29-2004, 01:41 PM

Pete, I THINK I could have traveled to the ATF office but this option wasn't explored and it's also sixty miles North of here and I didn't want to pack up about thirty lugers for the trip. She would have completed the inspection on the front lawn or even the garage, I think. I chose the location of the inspection in my dining room which has a large table to display them all.My other firearms are on the second floor armory under three keyed locks and alarmed. I wasn't going to allow her in there as that's MY PRIVATE DOMAIN.
Her recorded transactions were all C&R guys known to me and their books are in order.

John Sabato · 03-29-2004, 02:13 PM

Has any other member been the recipient of an ATF C&R License bound book inspection? If so, please report your experience here...

Herb · 03-29-2004, 02:38 PM

Daniel, your experience is pretty much the same as I have read at other gun boards. No hassle and reasonably friendly and willing to help. Good news is always great to hear, after all if it wasn't for dealers and collectors to inspect there would be no need for those job positions. It's too bad that all people that deal with the public don't realize that.

Michigan Gunner · 03-29-2004, 08:46 PM

While it can be a headache to go through dealers when one does not have a license. This post reminds me why I don't have one!

Glad it went well!

Lock and Load!

Hugh · 03-29-2004, 10:16 PM

<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" /> The following definition of a "bound book" is quoted from "FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATION REFERENCE GUIDE" published by the BATF. On page 138, under the heading: "E1 What is a bound book?"

"A bound book is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages which must be maintained on the business premises. In either event, the format must follow that prescribed in the regulations and the pages must be numbered consecutively."

So according to the BATF, a bound book can be a loose leaf notebook. There are places on the internet where the proper form for bound book pages can be downloaded in PDF or Word format for printing your own. My bound book consists of such pages in a loose leaf book. <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />

ToggleTop · 03-29-2004, 11:23 PM

Hello Hugh, <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

Thank you for the reference. If I wasn't so lazy I should have looked for it myself. I thought my binder was OK when I started it many years ago, I just didn't remember when I read Daniel's post on him referring to a "Bound Book". Anyway I ordered one of the bound books he referenced and will take a look at it when it arrives. Thanks for taking the time to post the information.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

03-28-2004, 10:09 PM	#1
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Post ATF inspection report Well, it's over , kinda like going in for a root canal, lots of anxiety...but when it's over, you think.. "that wasn't so bad ". The night before inspection I verified all entries against serial #'s in my C&R book,, then laid them out on the dining room table (covered with a sheet) in the same order in which they were entered in my "BOUND" book. There were 27 Lugers & 2 frames. SHE only was interested in inspecting those that were aquired through "THEIR" C&R license. She had a little trouble finding the luger serial # location , but after a little instruction , she did OK. She would read the description of the Luger and recite the serial # and I would pass the piece to her , after verfication ,she passed it back to me,we continued through the listings.She said I kept VG records and gave me "A" in penmanship. <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> It only took about 30 minutes to complete the inventory and then she reveiwed the C&R legal requirements. Reviewed LOST or STOLEN , Mutiple sales,Change of address, etc forms. Offered to send me added info in the mail on "Does & Don't" of the license holder. SHE was very congenial, but professional. At the end of inspection and the informational we reviewed a check list of her interview and she asked me to attest to the completion of her work and we both signed the form, I'll receive a copy. She did record about 4 or 5 transactions while she was telling me about the ATF 800 number to check on the authenticity of FFL #'s . Oh, she asked where I purchased my collection ,Gun Shows,other Collectors, Internet, etc. Said she usually does Business' with FFL 01 class, but this year there is emphasis on C&R's.......so look out they are coming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> heh...heh...

03-28-2004, 11:22 PM	#2
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Daniel, I am glad your inspection went well. I have one question related to just what is considered to be a "Bound Book"? What is meant by this term? Does it mean is has to be a ledger type bound book? I keep my records in a three ring binder with numbered pages in it. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

03-29-2004, 12:16 PM	#5
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Daniel, Thank you for the information. I ordered the bound book just a few minutes ago and it is less than $10.00. Your information made it very easy for me to get the book. I appreciate that. I will now have to transfer everything to the bound book which will take a little time. Best Regards, __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

03-29-2004, 02:13 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Has any other member been the recipient of an ATF C&R License bound book inspection? If so, please report your experience here... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-29-2004, 02:38 PM	#9
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Daniel, your experience is pretty much the same as I have read at other gun boards. No hassle and reasonably friendly and willing to help. Good news is always great to hear, after all if it wasn't for dealers and collectors to inspect there would be no need for those job positions. It's too bad that all people that deal with the public don't realize that. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

03-29-2004, 09:27 AM	#3
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Toggle Top, I have the " Dealers'Firearms Record Book ". It's available from "PFRB Company", PO Box 1242, Bloomington, Il.,61702 Tel.# 800-914-5464 and costs about ten bucks.

03-29-2004, 09:32 AM	#4
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Toggle, I don't think a three ring binder will fly with the ATF.Call and ask them....

03-29-2004, 01:15 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Daniel, I have a question and a comment : Question - Did you have the option of having the inspection occur at the local BATF office ? If yes, I would think that would be much less intrusive than opening up one's home. I realize that would entail one to bring all guns and records to the BATF office (not sure how that would work with security nowdays...). Comment - Maybe this 03 FFL inspection is just another way to "double-check" what the 01 FFL's are reporting. If this inspector recorded 4-5 of your transactions with 01 FFL's, I would hope the 01 FFL's books also reflect their sales to you... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-29-2004, 01:41 PM	#7
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pete, I THINK I could have traveled to the ATF office but this option wasn't explored and it's also sixty miles North of here and I didn't want to pack up about thirty lugers for the trip. She would have completed the inspection on the front lawn or even the garage, I think. I chose the location of the inspection in my dining room which has a large table to display them all.My other firearms are on the second floor armory under three keyed locks and alarmed. I wasn't going to allow her in there as that's MY PRIVATE DOMAIN. Her recorded transactions were all C&R guys known to me and their books are in order.

03-29-2004, 08:46 PM	#10
Michigan Gunner User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Michigan, on the border Posts: 75 Thanks: 2 Thanked 15 Times in 9 Posts	While it can be a headache to go through dealers when one does not have a license. This post reminds me why I don't have one! Glad it went well! Lock and Load!

03-29-2004, 10:16 PM	#11
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" /> The following definition of a "bound book" is quoted from "FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATION REFERENCE GUIDE" published by the BATF. On page 138, under the heading: "E1 What is a bound book?" "A bound book is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages which must be maintained on the business premises. In either event, the format must follow that prescribed in the regulations and the pages must be numbered consecutively." So according to the BATF, a bound book can be a loose leaf notebook. There are places on the internet where the proper form for bound book pages can be downloaded in PDF or Word format for printing your own. My bound book consists of such pages in a loose leaf book. <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

03-29-2004, 11:23 PM	#12
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Hugh, <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" /> Thank you for the reference. If I wasn't so lazy I should have looked for it myself. I thought my binder was OK when I started it many years ago, I just didn't remember when I read Daniel's post on him referring to a "Bound Book". Anyway I ordered one of the bound books he referenced and will take a look at it when it arrives. Thanks for taking the time to post the information. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************