Nice LP-08 Discussion...

Pete Ebbink · 02-26-2004, 01:26 PM

Just wanted to make an additional comment about the LP-08 pistol ad the previous discussion thread started with...

I understand the reasons for the "no 3-day inspection period" policy...

But this seller has also copy-protected her photographs on the Gun-Broker ad as well.

Normally when I buy somethin on-line, I cut & paste the sales ad photos in my on-line buying file on my PC. When an item arrives and looks different than the previous photos, I can at least go back to the seller with some documentation that what I bought and what I received may not match; thus a request for a refund.

Without the ability to capture the photos of a gun offered, I personally would not risk buying it and then running into a very restrictive "no return" policy...

I am only using this Carolina-girl ad as an example...and not implying this is occurring here.

I would just be cautious of not being able to captute the photos...

If I were to consider buying this piece, I would ask Carolina-girl to send me the photos before I sent in my money...as I do with every on-line seller..

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 02-26-2004, 01:49 PM

Pete, please check your private messages.

Big Norm · 02-26-2004, 11:50 PM

Pete,
I too understand the "No 3-Day" policy, even though I don't agree with it. But it was another of one those good discussions that make this forum so great. I just hope that John Sabato does not threaten you with any body harm if you suggest some more possible protection to buyers. : &gt

Just joking.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 02-27-2004, 10:36 AM

Norm, I would no more threaten Pete than I would you. I consider every member here to be more than just an acquaintence because we share a passion for this hobby. Many of you are my close friends.

Besides...I don't make threats, but I have been known to accurately predict the occurance of unfortunate circumstances for someone who behavior has been outside the lines of good ettiquette...

Fortunately, we are all gentleman here.

For the record, I am all for any protection that fairly treats both a purchaser and a seller in a transaction. Those who require unreasonable conditions, or who have a history of transactions that have been unjust, just don't get my business...

The offer by the seller of closeup, sharp focus photographs of something I want to buy long distance is a plus. There is no way to protect yourself from an unscrupulous trading partner other than not doing business with them. An exchange between honorable men should not leave a bad taste in either party's mouth when it is over.

<SOAPBOX MODE ON> A case in point...I had the unfortunate experience agreeing to purchase something from a forum member just last week.

We both trusted each other, and he requested my personal check since he didn't accept paypal which is how I normally pay for things bought on line. I was waiting to hear from him that the check had cleared when I checked my account on line this week and discovered that an unanticipated "automatic" replenishment transaction had occured days in advance of when it was expected and all but wiped out my discretionary checking account with a withdrawal just as the seller deposited my check.

I contacted him immediately when I found out and asked that if he had not deposited the check, to please hold it until this weekend... but alas, he had already deposited it and had just received word that it had bounced. To make matters worse, he had shipped the merchandise and now felt that he was out not only the cost of the merchandise but the bounce fee as well.

I was also very frustrated by the situation since the credit union where I do my business is an hour and half away... I reassured the seller that he has lost nothing, and that a cashier's check for the merchandise and his fees from the bank will be mailed Today... and that this whole affair will be behind us by next week. Yet the embarrassment of the situation is permanent for me, even if I can make financial reparations. Integrity can be defined as doing the right thing even if you think no one will know... A man's honor is not something that should never be intentionally discarded. There is no price or profit worth my honor.

I trust that this public apology combined with financial reparations will restore my honor in the eyes of the seller... He knows who he is... I thank him for his understanding and patience.

<SOAPBOX MODE OFF>

Pete Ebbink · 02-27-2004, 10:37 AM

Hey Norm,

John's PM was not censorship...he was helping me with another item we had been working on...he uses the PM to get a hold of me when he knows I am reading the LF...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

tudorbug · 02-27-2004, 12:50 PM

John:

A good writing on the hazards of life in personal finances. Don't feel bad. You've lots of company.

Here's my recent example. Paid for car repair of $1000. A few days later, my wife balances check book and informs me in "that tone of voice" that I had made a $1000 subtraction error. It was on the line of $1895 take away $1000 equals $2895.....

How the heck do you make a $1000 subtraction error?!?!??

I can't begin to describe the frantic pedaling that was needed to recover from that stupid error.

We all do this.

Particularly when we get old! :-))

Hang in there, log it in, and keep up your good work in support of this forum.

John Sabato · 02-27-2004, 01:03 PM

There is no denying the age factor in these things... I notice that your handmade smilie has a double-chin. If you use the post-reply button, instead of the Add reply to create your post... the selection of ready-made "emoticons" that are available makes a user's "tone of voice" a little easier to comprehend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Thanks for the reassurance... <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Luke · 02-27-2004, 01:46 PM

Pete -

I follow the same practice that you describe. I cut and paste the picture into a MS Word file that fully describes all the details of the purchase . . . . . mainly because I sometimes forget something if I don't write it down.

When I encounter protected photographs of an item which is for sale I use a utility called "HyperSnap DX5" which allows a capture of the screen image or any part thereof. There are other methods, but this one works just fine for me.

While I try to observe copyright law, protecting pictures of items for sale is an unreasonable extension of such rights IMHO.

Luke

02-26-2004, 01:26 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Nice LP-08 Discussion... Just wanted to make an additional comment about the LP-08 pistol ad the previous discussion thread started with... I understand the reasons for the "no 3-day inspection period" policy... But this seller has also copy-protected her photographs on the Gun-Broker ad as well. Normally when I buy somethin on-line, I cut & paste the sales ad photos in my on-line buying file on my PC. When an item arrives and looks different than the previous photos, I can at least go back to the seller with some documentation that what I bought and what I received may not match; thus a request for a refund. Without the ability to capture the photos of a gun offered, I personally would not risk buying it and then running into a very restrictive "no return" policy... I am only using this Carolina-girl ad as an example...and not implying this is occurring here. I would just be cautious of not being able to captute the photos... If I were to consider buying this piece, I would ask Carolina-girl to send me the photos before I sent in my money...as I do with every on-line seller.. Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

02-26-2004, 01:49 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Pete, please check your private messages. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-27-2004, 10:36 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Norm, I would no more threaten Pete than I would you. I consider every member here to be more than just an acquaintence because we share a passion for this hobby. Many of you are my close friends. Besides...I don't make threats, but I have been known to accurately predict the occurance of unfortunate circumstances for someone who behavior has been outside the lines of good ettiquette... Fortunately, we are all gentleman here. For the record, I am all for any protection that fairly treats both a purchaser and a seller in a transaction. Those who require unreasonable conditions, or who have a history of transactions that have been unjust, just don't get my business... The offer by the seller of closeup, sharp focus photographs of something I want to buy long distance is a plus. There is no way to protect yourself from an unscrupulous trading partner other than not doing business with them. An exchange between honorable men should not leave a bad taste in either party's mouth when it is over. <SOAPBOX MODE ON> A case in point...I had the unfortunate experience agreeing to purchase something from a forum member just last week. We both trusted each other, and he requested my personal check since he didn't accept paypal which is how I normally pay for things bought on line. I was waiting to hear from him that the check had cleared when I checked my account on line this week and discovered that an unanticipated "automatic" replenishment transaction had occured days in advance of when it was expected and all but wiped out my discretionary checking account with a withdrawal just as the seller deposited my check. I contacted him immediately when I found out and asked that if he had not deposited the check, to please hold it until this weekend... but alas, he had already deposited it and had just received word that it had bounced. To make matters worse, he had shipped the merchandise and now felt that he was out not only the cost of the merchandise but the bounce fee as well. I was also very frustrated by the situation since the credit union where I do my business is an hour and half away... I reassured the seller that he has lost nothing, and that a cashier's check for the merchandise and his fees from the bank will be mailed Today... and that this whole affair will be behind us by next week. Yet the embarrassment of the situation is permanent for me, even if I can make financial reparations. Integrity can be defined as doing the right thing even if you think no one will know... A man's honor is not something that should never be intentionally discarded. There is no price or profit worth my honor. I trust that this public apology combined with financial reparations will restore my honor in the eyes of the seller... He knows who he is... I thank him for his understanding and patience. <SOAPBOX MODE OFF> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-27-2004, 01:03 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	There is no denying the age factor in these things... I notice that your handmade smilie has a double-chin. If you use the post-reply button, instead of the Add reply to create your post... the selection of ready-made "emoticons" that are available makes a user's "tone of voice" a little easier to comprehend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Thanks for the reassurance... <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-27-2004, 01:46 PM	#8
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Pete - I follow the same practice that you describe. I cut and paste the picture into a MS Word file that fully describes all the details of the purchase . . . . . mainly because I sometimes forget something if I don't write it down. When I encounter protected photographs of an item which is for sale I use a utility called "HyperSnap DX5" which allows a capture of the screen image or any part thereof. There are other methods, but this one works just fine for me. While I try to observe copyright law, protecting pictures of items for sale is an unreasonable extension of such rights IMHO. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

02-26-2004, 11:50 PM	#3
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Pete, I too understand the "No 3-Day" policy, even though I don't agree with it. But it was another of one those good discussions that make this forum so great. I just hope that John Sabato does not threaten you with any body harm if you suggest some more possible protection to buyers. : &gt Just joking. Big Norm

02-27-2004, 10:37 AM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hey Norm, John's PM was not censorship...he was helping me with another item we had been working on...he uses the PM to get a hold of me when he knows I am reading the LF... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

02-27-2004, 12:50 PM	#6
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	John: A good writing on the hazards of life in personal finances. Don't feel bad. You've lots of company. Here's my recent example. Paid for car repair of $1000. A few days later, my wife balances check book and informs me in "that tone of voice" that I had made a $1000 subtraction error. It was on the line of $1895 take away $1000 equals $2895..... How the heck do you make a $1000 subtraction error?!?!?? I can't begin to describe the frantic pedaling that was needed to recover from that stupid error. We all do this. Particularly when we get old! :-)) Hang in there, log it in, and keep up your good work in support of this forum.