Matching magazines

tracyp · 12-17-2002, 01:55 AM

This 1940 Luger is up for sale on gunbroker

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=6624613

The numbers on the magazines match the pistol, but the top magazine has P08 on it. P08 didn't start until 1941. Plus if they were serialized at the same time, wouldn't they have the same acceptance stamps? Do you think someone hase messed with these?

Leon DeSpain · 12-17-2002, 03:48 AM

Hi Tracyp,

I believe those mags are fabrications. I have a 1939 in the z block with 2 matching mags. On the auction mags, the style of the numbers and the suffix doesn't appear to be correct and the spare mag should have a "+" on it. I'm not sure about the tubes as there was considerable overlap between the use of the formed sheet metal mags and the extruded mags. I would guess the tubes could be correct for the period but I believe you are correct about the P08 showing up later. Here is a link to my web site showing my spare mag for comparison.

http://lmd-militaria.com/page23.html

Regards, Leon

Frank · 12-17-2002, 09:54 AM

Hi Tracyp, Leon has it right. A C-Block 1940 has three potential candidates for magazines. The first is an older folded style (without a pin through the center of the aluminum bottom) and would have an acceptance mark of E/655 on the bottom. The other two possibilities both are extruded types of the E/37, 122 styles, one has no acceptance marks on the bottom and the other has a small E/37 on the bottom, located at the top center portion of the aluminum section. The ones shown are extruded, but appear to be marked with E/655, which is absolutely incorrect!

The numbers are the wrong type face and very irregular, indicating an "enhanced" magazine, as some dealers would say.

The pistol, however, does look pretty nice. The real question in everyone's mind should be, if the magazines are "enhanced" are there other parts that are also "enhanced".

I guess "buyer beware" would be appropriate!!

<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />

Dwight Gruber · 12-17-2002, 10:55 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Frank:
<strong>if the magazines are "enhanced" are there other parts that are also "enhanced".</strong><hr></blockquote>

The appearance of the way the grips fit in the photographs raises a question in my mind.

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 12-17-2002, 02:01 PM

This is one of those magic posts....

If there is doubt, then shy away, unless you are looking for a shooter.

I hate to say that and appoligize if the seller is on this forum, but if there is doubt, then why bother?

There are tens of thousands of different guns to find out there and as my Dad always said, if you wait long enough, the right one will show up. It is like all these "rare" books or rare parts on e-bay, you start to look and in a months time you can get as many of XXXX as you want.

Ed

John Sabato · 12-17-2002, 02:31 PM

this is a fine looking shooter in my opinion... but I agree with Frank and Leon that the magazines are suspect... which would cause a very dramatic value drop.

In this greatly enlarged photo showing both natural color and the negative images of one magazine bottoms, you can see that the numeral "4" has overstamped what looks like may have been a "3". Further, the finish on the bottom of the mag has been adjusted so that the soft finish at point "A" that would be natural for an aluminum magazine bottom of this vintage has been replaced with a fresh finish by a close encounter either sandpaper or a emory belt. Not enough has been removed to give the round appearance of the knobs an off balance look, that is why one of the numerals that was overstamped is clearly visible.

The seller of this rig may be innocent of wrongdoing, and may only be passing on a rig that he purchased in good faith, but IMHO, this mag is not original to this pistol. I would not pay half of the buy it now price for the pistol... the mags add little to the pistol's value in this case...

That's my

jerry_911 · 12-18-2002, 11:29 AM

I think this is my first post to the forum. I have a question about correctly supplied magazines. I have a '39 S/42 (4504o) all matching except the mags. It came with a blued stamped mag with Al bottom (4976u +, E63) and a fxo mag (E37)with plastic bottom. I also have a extruded mag (526k +, E37)with Al bottom. It is also marked with 122 which I assume is the manufacture code.

The question is -- which style mag is most acceptable with the 1939 date of issue? I've looked through several source books with no luck. I think I read that the plastic bottomed fxos were not offered until 1941 so, if that is true,would limit the selection.

Thanks, Jerry

Frank · 12-18-2002, 12:27 PM

Hi Jerry, First, the 1939, S/42 is a very desireable variation of the Mauser Luger since there were only about 38,000 made. Your blue folded magazine (4976u +, E/63) comes the closest to the correct magazine. That magazine was issued with a 1937, S/42. Any blue folded type magazine, with an acceptance mark of E/63, with a late N (after about 4000n), O, P, Q suffix or E/83, with a late N (after about 4000n) or O suffix would have been issued with a 1939, S/42 Luger. Hope this helps!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

12-17-2002, 01:55 AM	#1
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Matching magazines This 1940 Luger is up for sale on gunbroker http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=6624613 The numbers on the magazines match the pistol, but the top magazine has P08 on it. P08 didn't start until 1941. Plus if they were serialized at the same time, wouldn't they have the same acceptance stamps? Do you think someone hase messed with these?

12-17-2002, 02:01 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	This is one of those magic posts.... If there is doubt, then shy away, unless you are looking for a shooter. I hate to say that and appoligize if the seller is on this forum, but if there is doubt, then why bother? There are tens of thousands of different guns to find out there and as my Dad always said, if you wait long enough, the right one will show up. It is like all these "rare" books or rare parts on e-bay, you start to look and in a months time you can get as many of XXXX as you want. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-17-2002, 02:31 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	this is a fine looking shooter in my opinion... but I agree with Frank and Leon that the magazines are suspect... which would cause a very dramatic value drop. In this greatly enlarged photo showing both natural color and the negative images of one magazine bottoms, you can see that the numeral "4" has overstamped what looks like may have been a "3". Further, the finish on the bottom of the mag has been adjusted so that the soft finish at point "A" that would be natural for an aluminum magazine bottom of this vintage has been replaced with a fresh finish by a close encounter either sandpaper or a emory belt. Not enough has been removed to give the round appearance of the knobs an off balance look, that is why one of the numerals that was overstamped is clearly visible. The seller of this rig may be innocent of wrongdoing, and may only be passing on a rig that he purchased in good faith, but IMHO, this mag is not original to this pistol. I would not pay half of the buy it now price for the pistol... the mags add little to the pistol's value in this case... That's my __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-17-2002, 03:48 AM	#2
Leon DeSpain User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Hi Tracyp, I believe those mags are fabrications. I have a 1939 in the z block with 2 matching mags. On the auction mags, the style of the numbers and the suffix doesn't appear to be correct and the spare mag should have a "+" on it. I'm not sure about the tubes as there was considerable overlap between the use of the formed sheet metal mags and the extruded mags. I would guess the tubes could be correct for the period but I believe you are correct about the P08 showing up later. Here is a link to my web site showing my spare mag for comparison. http://lmd-militaria.com/page23.html Regards, Leon

12-17-2002, 09:54 AM	#3
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 165 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Tracyp, Leon has it right. A C-Block 1940 has three potential candidates for magazines. The first is an older folded style (without a pin through the center of the aluminum bottom) and would have an acceptance mark of E/655 on the bottom. The other two possibilities both are extruded types of the E/37, 122 styles, one has no acceptance marks on the bottom and the other has a small E/37 on the bottom, located at the top center portion of the aluminum section. The ones shown are extruded, but appear to be marked with E/655, which is absolutely incorrect! The numbers are the wrong type face and very irregular, indicating an "enhanced" magazine, as some dealers would say. The pistol, however, does look pretty nice. The real question in everyone's mind should be, if the magazines are "enhanced" are there other parts that are also "enhanced". I guess "buyer beware" would be appropriate!! <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />

12-17-2002, 10:55 AM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Frank: <strong>if the magazines are "enhanced" are there other parts that are also "enhanced".</strong><hr></blockquote> The appearance of the way the grips fit in the photographs raises a question in my mind. --Dwight

12-18-2002, 11:29 AM	#7
jerry_911 New User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Peoria Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think this is my first post to the forum. I have a question about correctly supplied magazines. I have a '39 S/42 (4504o) all matching except the mags. It came with a blued stamped mag with Al bottom (4976u +, E63) and a fxo mag (E37)with plastic bottom. I also have a extruded mag (526k +, E37)with Al bottom. It is also marked with 122 which I assume is the manufacture code. The question is -- which style mag is most acceptable with the 1939 date of issue? I've looked through several source books with no luck. I think I read that the plastic bottomed fxos were not offered until 1941 so, if that is true,would limit the selection. Thanks, Jerry

12-18-2002, 12:27 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 165 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Jerry, First, the 1939, S/42 is a very desireable variation of the Mauser Luger since there were only about 38,000 made. Your blue folded magazine (4976u +, E/63) comes the closest to the correct magazine. That magazine was issued with a 1937, S/42. Any blue folded type magazine, with an acceptance mark of E/63, with a late N (after about 4000n), O, P, Q suffix or E/83, with a late N (after about 4000n) or O suffix would have been issued with a 1939, S/42 Luger. Hope this helps!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />