Should I buy this DWM 1917 shooter for $475

gpage · 08-03-2003, 01:36 AM

Hey Guys:
I'm a Newbie to Lugers, and a very casual WW1 and WW2 Collector, mainly interested in shooting and admiring. Obviously I must own a Luger, and a friend offered me one yesterday. 1917 DWM, matching Serial # on frame, upper receiver, trigger, & extractor. No serial # present on takedown lever or dust cover. Non matching serial on back of period correct DWM stamped Toggle. It has 1 metal and one chipped wooden base magazines, period correct/non-matching serials.

I was told that this may have been an artillery model that was reworked at the factory into a standard model. There IS a stock attachment groove on the handle, and there is no serial on the barrel, (which BTW, is excellent)
My assumption is that there is no collectors value to this gun, and it is just a shooter. But as a shooter, it had some issues today at the range. I had a failure to feed on basically every magazine, and the point of impact at 25 yds was at least a foot high and 2-4" right. The Gun was well lubed, and I was shooting Winchester target/range 115 gr. 9mm ammo.

SO....
1) Can these feeding issues be addressed?
2) What about this Revamped Artillery model business? Is it probable, and if so, Is that good, bad, or insignificant?
3) In light of 1 and 2, Is this a good deal? (i.e. could I expect to sell this gun for at least $450-$500 if I wanted to get out of it later?)

Many thanks for the fruits of your experience.
G Page

Edward Tinker · 08-03-2003, 02:10 AM

Hello Greg, no, all Lugers after mid 1913 had stock lugs on them.

See the picture below, this shows the differences in a Lange (artillery) that has been shortened or a different barrel added after WW1.

Ed

gpage · 08-03-2003, 03:05 AM

Here's a (blurry) shot of the front of the upper receiver/barrel intersection. If not an artillery rework, then what do you think this is?

Edward Tinker · 08-03-2003, 03:12 AM

From the picture it looks like mine? I guess I should have said; Can you verify which one of those three pictures it looks the most like on the top of the reciever?

The P08 is trhe standard model, the LP08 is the "artillery" model.

Also, "shooter" Lugers go for $400 - $550 right now, so your guess is a good one for prices.

Failure to feed can be several thinhgs, usually if both magazines are screwing up, it isn't that (although that is the first thing I think it is).

Are there reasons that you believe it is an artillery model?

What markings are on the udnerside of the barrel?

And welcome to the forum, meant to say that before, been a long day... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Ed

gpage · 08-03-2003, 03:52 AM

Thanks for the follow up, and sorry for the bad picture. The Camera Batteries failed as I snapped it...

The friend who is selling it was told that it was a "Converted Artillery Version", which prompted my investigation. Would this have any impact on it's value, or would it still be a $400-$500 Shooter.

BTW, the trigger, extractor, etc seem to be blued, rather than "strawed" . (Strawed: an expression I had never heard before yesterday. That's why I love this stuff!)

Edward Tinker · 08-03-2003, 04:01 AM

If it was a unaltered 1917, it would have severa parts strawed and not blued, so at some point it has been reblued and thus its value is almost strictly as a "shooter", but of course those prices can be more or less in your area.

But, the price is reasonable, but if you ca trade him something, even better,

Ed

Herb · 08-03-2003, 04:17 AM

gpage, according to Costanzo, page 222, World of Lugers Proof Marks, the markings on the right side of the rear frame are pressure and poundage test proofs found on the right rear frame area. Lugers were picked at random, tested, proofed and placed back on the assembly line. Also found on the sear bar bottom and bottom of the barrel. While he lists this marking as a 2 on the order of 10, I have never seen it before.

gpage · 08-03-2003, 05:10 AM

Thanks for the info: I'll probably pick this one up and dink arounnd with it a little. Maybe I'll grab a new Mec-gar Mag to improve the feeding. Will I find info on how to "ReStraw" parts on the forum somewhere?

GP

Edward Tinker · 08-03-2003, 05:27 AM

GP, do a search on restraw, it was fairly recently there were exact directions on how to do it.

Lots of good info on your left under tech and general information, plus the great posts by members of this forum. Almost always if someone gives false, incorrect or "odd" info, others on the forum will correct the lout.

John St · 08-03-2003, 07:30 AM

It looks a bit rough and pricey for a shooter at the price you mentioned and the other feeding contingencies with magazines.

I put $600 into a "shooter" with all matching parts and extremely pitted bore--but easily the most accurate handgun I have ever owned (despite the frightful bore).

I am happy and think a 100% reliable and accurate shooter is worth more than any collector's item.

08-03-2003, 01:36 AM	#1
gpage User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Should I buy this DWM 1917 shooter for $475 Hey Guys: I'm a Newbie to Lugers, and a very casual WW1 and WW2 Collector, mainly interested in shooting and admiring. Obviously I must own a Luger, and a friend offered me one yesterday. 1917 DWM, matching Serial # on frame, upper receiver, trigger, & extractor. No serial # present on takedown lever or dust cover. Non matching serial on back of period correct DWM stamped Toggle. It has 1 metal and one chipped wooden base magazines, period correct/non-matching serials. I was told that this may have been an artillery model that was reworked at the factory into a standard model. There IS a stock attachment groove on the handle, and there is no serial on the barrel, (which BTW, is excellent) My assumption is that there is no collectors value to this gun, and it is just a shooter. But as a shooter, it had some issues today at the range. I had a failure to feed on basically every magazine, and the point of impact at 25 yds was at least a foot high and 2-4" right. The Gun was well lubed, and I was shooting Winchester target/range 115 gr. 9mm ammo. SO.... 1) Can these feeding issues be addressed? 2) What about this Revamped Artillery model business? Is it probable, and if so, Is that good, bad, or insignificant? 3) In light of 1 and 2, Is this a good deal? (i.e. could I expect to sell this gun for at least $450-$500 if I wanted to get out of it later?) Many thanks for the fruits of your experience. G Page

08-03-2003, 02:10 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	Hello Greg, no, all Lugers after mid 1913 had stock lugs on them. See the picture below, this shows the differences in a Lange (artillery) that has been shortened or a different barrel added after WW1. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-03-2003, 03:12 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	From the picture it looks like mine? I guess I should have said; Can you verify which one of those three pictures it looks the most like on the top of the reciever? The P08 is trhe standard model, the LP08 is the "artillery" model. Also, "shooter" Lugers go for $400 - $550 right now, so your guess is a good one for prices. Failure to feed can be several thinhgs, usually if both magazines are screwing up, it isn't that (although that is the first thing I think it is). Are there reasons that you believe it is an artillery model? What markings are on the udnerside of the barrel? And welcome to the forum, meant to say that before, been a long day... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-03-2003, 04:01 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	If it was a unaltered 1917, it would have severa parts strawed and not blued, so at some point it has been reblued and thus its value is almost strictly as a "shooter", but of course those prices can be more or less in your area. But, the price is reasonable, but if you ca trade him something, even better, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-03-2003, 04:17 AM	#7
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	gpage, according to Costanzo, page 222, World of Lugers Proof Marks, the markings on the right side of the rear frame are pressure and poundage test proofs found on the right rear frame area. Lugers were picked at random, tested, proofed and placed back on the assembly line. Also found on the sear bar bottom and bottom of the barrel. While he lists this marking as a 2 on the order of 10, I have never seen it before. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

08-03-2003, 03:05 AM	#3
gpage User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's a (blurry) shot of the front of the upper receiver/barrel intersection. If not an artillery rework, then what do you think this is?

08-03-2003, 03:52 AM	#5
gpage User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the follow up, and sorry for the bad picture. The Camera Batteries failed as I snapped it... The friend who is selling it was told that it was a "Converted Artillery Version", which prompted my investigation. Would this have any impact on it's value, or would it still be a $400-$500 Shooter. BTW, the trigger, extractor, etc seem to be blued, rather than "strawed" . (Strawed: an expression I had never heard before yesterday. That's why I love this stuff!)

08-03-2003, 05:10 AM	#8
gpage User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info: I'll probably pick this one up and dink arounnd with it a little. Maybe I'll grab a new Mec-gar Mag to improve the feeding. Will I find info on how to "ReStraw" parts on the forum somewhere? GP

08-03-2003, 05:27 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	GP, do a search on restraw, it was fairly recently there were exact directions on how to do it. Lots of good info on your left under tech and general information, plus the great posts by members of this forum. Almost always if someone gives false, incorrect or "odd" info, others on the forum will correct the lout. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-03-2003, 07:30 AM	#10
John St User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It looks a bit rough and pricey for a shooter at the price you mentioned and the other feeding contingencies with magazines. I put $600 into a "shooter" with all matching parts and extremely pitted bore--but easily the most accurate handgun I have ever owned (despite the frightful bore). I am happy and think a 100% reliable and accurate shooter is worth more than any collector's item.