The Million Dollar Luger....

minigun · 11-30-2002, 11:54 PM

Okay, I have read in a magazine (can't remember the magazine's name or anything) about three Lugers that were here in the U.S. during the first part of the 1900's. They were supposed to be test subjects for the U.S. Army that had been imported to the U.S. to compete against the 1911. They were chambered in .45 ACP cal. and had an American Eagle stamped over the receiver.

I understand from reading that one Luger was (I think) destroyed. One collector has one and the other was stolen. These are supposed to be valued at one million dollars.

I just wondered if anyone knew what I was talking about and could give any info on these. I just thought it was a very interesting article. Thanks

I can't find the article or the magazine that I read about these Lugers

Edward Tinker · 12-01-2002, 01:36 AM

Hello,

I can give you a couple of places for information.

1. If you do a search on this forum, you will see several long discussions about this subject.

2. If you go http://www.lugerforum.com/45Luger.html which is here on the forum, you can read this article.

The short of it is, there is a 45 ACP in a private collection and there is a 45 ACP at the Norton Gallery in Shreveport, LA.

The million dollar is a guess, because the last time one was sold was for around a purported 850,000 dollars.

Ed

minigun · 12-01-2002, 11:16 PM

Thanks for the link. I wish I could remember the magazine I read this from. I wonder if $800,000 was rounded off, because the magazine stated it was worth a million?? It was a common firearms magazine like "Guns and Ammo" (that actually might be the magazine, I just can't remember).

Also, I have seen a .45 cal Luger at a Dallas gun show before. The owner of that .45 Luger's web site is www.relicsofthereichs.com . The owner had it for sale (although I never asked him how much) along with other very expensive Lugers that he was selling and had on display. He is a very reputable dealer at this show, so I'm pretty sure it was not a fake (although back then I didn't know what to look for-and I still am a little shaky). I remember seeing it having an eagle crest above the chamber but don't remember if it had a handgrip safety or not. This was approximately two or so years ago (maybe longer).

I wonder if this .45 Luger that I saw was the same one as one of these that the link you provided explained?? He also reportedly has one of the very few "Baby Lugers" as well. I don't doubt him due to what he had (and has) for sale. I never saw the "Baby Luger", but isn't that one also worth quite a bit??

Thanks

Edward Tinker · 12-01-2002, 11:41 PM

There are many other .45's out there. John Martz (some of our forum members have his 9mm's and other calibers), has made many 45 Lugers, I want one really bad. He takes two 9mm Lugers, cuts them not quite in half and puts them together to make a 45! I think they go for $4 or $5,000.

Then Krause has been making exact copies of the original 45's for several years, he sells them for around $15,000.

Then a guy named Wyatt made some single shot 45's in the 60's I think. I am sure there are a few others also.

Several of our forum members have made baby Lugers, but there are only one or two "real" ones in existence.

Ron Wood · 12-02-2002, 01:48 AM

The "Million Dollar Luger" article was in "Guns & Ammo".

The link to "relicsofthereichs" is to Mike Morris' website. He does not own an original .45 Luger, so if one was seen at the Dallas show, it must have been a Martz custom or Wyatt conversion. Mike reportedly does own an original Baby Luger in .32 caliber.

The Wyatt conversion is not a single shot. It has a fixed magazine in the grip, so rounds must be loaded from the top. There is a slot in the grip that allows a pin to be inserted into the magazine follower to push it down to load the individual rounds. I think the magazine capacity is 6 rounds.

Pete Ebbink · 12-02-2002, 08:42 PM

Hello Kelly (aka Minigun),

If you switch to the Luger Forum section titled "Early Lugers" and search the message thread titles for the terms ".45" and "1945; there were some very interesting posting about how many .45 luger pistols there are.

It is quite a lively debate and makes good informative reading.

Besides a serial # 2 pistol (the old Sid Aberman gun) and the un-numbered .45 pistol in the Norton gallery, there is a # 5 pistol that keeps popping up...and then there is that recently discovered and very controversial .45 carbine luger (serial # 21...) that will get most folks "going ballistic" on this Forum if talked about... [img]wink.gif[/img]

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Herb · 12-02-2002, 10:21 PM

Last week we went to Sacramento to spend Thanksgiving with the children and grandkids. While there I visited Gary Thiery's gun parts shop and engaged in some small talk. Gary told me of a friend that had discovered a Mormon couple in Provo, Utah that had an all original .45cal Luger in excellent condition that he was trying to talk them out of. He didn't have any more details only that his friend hadn't contacted him for awhile. Could this be one of the 5 reputed to have been made?? I intend calling Gary in a couple of weeks to get an update, this seems too good to be true. If I can get any more info I will post it here.

Edward Tinker · 12-02-2002, 10:34 PM

Herb, that is pretty wild, would be interesting to find out??

Of course, it is like the word Luger, you hear people call a P38 or others a Luger, so who knows, the 45 maybe true and maybe it is one of the others we talked about?

Of course, I hope it is a real one...

And welcome back, it has been a while since you posted... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

minigun · 12-03-2002, 12:52 AM

Okay, "Wyatt" sounds like one of the .45's that Mr. Morris had. He had some really neat older original Lugers that had a different extractor setup and toggle grip that I had never seen before. Mr. Morris educated me on these.

I bought a mag for my Luger from Mr. Morris at a reasonable price. He was also very interesting to talk to about Lugers as he seems to have extensive knowledge on this subject.

I would also like to know more about the .45 Luger from the Mormon couple.

drbuster · 12-03-2002, 08:45 AM

Where exactly is Gary Thiery's parts shop? I'm close to Sacramento and my son lives there.

max2cam · 12-04-2002, 10:24 AM

Oh oh! the cat's out of the bag. Now Mormon country will be swamped with Luger collectors searching for the Holy Grail.

Sounds like a good way to attract tourists.....

Edward Tinker · 12-04-2002, 12:46 PM

A 45 P38 would be great!

Ig got one in your back feather pocket? [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Mark A · 12-04-2002, 07:36 PM

This summer, when I was still looking for my first Luger, I walked into a bonified Gun Shop and saw in the display case one post-war Mauser Luger and one broomhandle mauser. I asked the proprieter to show me the Luger. He said "which one?" That was right here in Colorado where nearly half of the population are native speakers of American. (And I don't need to remind you all that broomhandles do come in .45.

11-30-2002, 11:54 PM	#1
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts	The Million Dollar Luger.... Okay, I have read in a magazine (can't remember the magazine's name or anything) about three Lugers that were here in the U.S. during the first part of the 1900's. They were supposed to be test subjects for the U.S. Army that had been imported to the U.S. to compete against the 1911. They were chambered in .45 ACP cal. and had an American Eagle stamped over the receiver. I understand from reading that one Luger was (I think) destroyed. One collector has one and the other was stolen. These are supposed to be valued at one million dollars. I just wondered if anyone knew what I was talking about and could give any info on these. I just thought it was a very interesting article. Thanks I can't find the article or the magazine that I read about these Lugers

12-01-2002, 01:36 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Hello, I can give you a couple of places for information. 1. If you do a search on this forum, you will see several long discussions about this subject. 2. If you go http://www.lugerforum.com/45Luger.html which is here on the forum, you can read this article. The short of it is, there is a 45 ACP in a private collection and there is a 45 ACP at the Norton Gallery in Shreveport, LA. The million dollar is a guess, because the last time one was sold was for around a purported 850,000 dollars. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-01-2002, 11:41 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	There are many other .45's out there. John Martz (some of our forum members have his 9mm's and other calibers), has made many 45 Lugers, I want one really bad. He takes two 9mm Lugers, cuts them not quite in half and puts them together to make a 45! I think they go for $4 or $5,000. Then Krause has been making exact copies of the original 45's for several years, he sells them for around $15,000. Then a guy named Wyatt made some single shot 45's in the 60's I think. I am sure there are a few others also. Several of our forum members have made baby Lugers, but there are only one or two "real" ones in existence. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-02-2002, 01:48 AM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The "Million Dollar Luger" article was in "Guns & Ammo". The link to "relicsofthereichs" is to Mike Morris' website. He does not own an original .45 Luger, so if one was seen at the Dallas show, it must have been a Martz custom or Wyatt conversion. Mike reportedly does own an original Baby Luger in .32 caliber. The Wyatt conversion is not a single shot. It has a fixed magazine in the grip, so rounds must be loaded from the top. There is a slot in the grip that allows a pin to be inserted into the magazine follower to push it down to load the individual rounds. I think the magazine capacity is 6 rounds. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-02-2002, 10:21 PM	#7
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Last week we went to Sacramento to spend Thanksgiving with the children and grandkids. While there I visited Gary Thiery's gun parts shop and engaged in some small talk. Gary told me of a friend that had discovered a Mormon couple in Provo, Utah that had an all original .45cal Luger in excellent condition that he was trying to talk them out of. He didn't have any more details only that his friend hadn't contacted him for awhile. Could this be one of the 5 reputed to have been made?? I intend calling Gary in a couple of weeks to get an update, this seems too good to be true. If I can get any more info I will post it here. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

12-01-2002, 11:16 PM	#3
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts	Thanks for the link. I wish I could remember the magazine I read this from. I wonder if $800,000 was rounded off, because the magazine stated it was worth a million?? It was a common firearms magazine like "Guns and Ammo" (that actually might be the magazine, I just can't remember). Also, I have seen a .45 cal Luger at a Dallas gun show before. The owner of that .45 Luger's web site is www.relicsofthereichs.com . The owner had it for sale (although I never asked him how much) along with other very expensive Lugers that he was selling and had on display. He is a very reputable dealer at this show, so I'm pretty sure it was not a fake (although back then I didn't know what to look for-and I still am a little shaky). I remember seeing it having an eagle crest above the chamber but don't remember if it had a handgrip safety or not. This was approximately two or so years ago (maybe longer). I wonder if this .45 Luger that I saw was the same one as one of these that the link you provided explained?? He also reportedly has one of the very few "Baby Lugers" as well. I don't doubt him due to what he had (and has) for sale. I never saw the "Baby Luger", but isn't that one also worth quite a bit?? Thanks

12-02-2002, 08:42 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Kelly (aka Minigun), If you switch to the Luger Forum section titled "Early Lugers" and search the message thread titles for the terms ".45" and "1945; there were some very interesting posting about how many .45 luger pistols there are. It is quite a lively debate and makes good informative reading. Besides a serial # 2 pistol (the old Sid Aberman gun) and the un-numbered .45 pistol in the Norton gallery, there is a # 5 pistol that keeps popping up...and then there is that recently discovered and very controversial .45 carbine luger (serial # 21...) that will get most folks "going ballistic" on this Forum if talked about... [img]wink.gif[/img] Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

12-02-2002, 10:34 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Herb, that is pretty wild, would be interesting to find out?? Of course, it is like the word Luger, you hear people call a P38 or others a Luger, so who knows, the 45 maybe true and maybe it is one of the others we talked about? Of course, I hope it is a real one... And welcome back, it has been a while since you posted... [img]tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-03-2002, 12:52 AM	#9
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts	Okay, "Wyatt" sounds like one of the .45's that Mr. Morris had. He had some really neat older original Lugers that had a different extractor setup and toggle grip that I had never seen before. Mr. Morris educated me on these. I bought a mag for my Luger from Mr. Morris at a reasonable price. He was also very interesting to talk to about Lugers as he seems to have extensive knowledge on this subject. I would also like to know more about the .45 Luger from the Mormon couple.

12-03-2002, 08:45 AM	#10
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Where exactly is Gary Thiery's parts shop? I'm close to Sacramento and my son lives there.

12-04-2002, 10:24 AM	#11
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oh oh! the cat's out of the bag. Now Mormon country will be swamped with Luger collectors searching for the Holy Grail. Sounds like a good way to attract tourists.....

12-04-2002, 12:46 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	A 45 P38 would be great! Ig got one in your back feather pocket? [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-04-2002, 07:36 PM	#13
Mark A User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Wheat Ridge, CO Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This summer, when I was still looking for my first Luger, I walked into a bonified Gun Shop and saw in the display case one post-war Mauser Luger and one broomhandle mauser. I asked the proprieter to show me the Luger. He said "which one?" That was right here in Colorado where nearly half of the population are native speakers of American. (And I don't need to remind you all that broomhandles do come in .45. __________________ Mark