1938 S/42 query

Robert W. Simms · 10-05-2003, 10:46 AM

Hello:
Thanks to all of you for the willingness to share your knowledge. This forum is great for a neophyte like me. I have the opportunity to buy a 1938 S/42 Luger "shooter". The gun looks very nice as it has been recently re-blued. Prior to the re-bluing it was buffed to remove some light surface pitting and this has softened some of the detail lines and made some of the markings less distinct. The only strawing left is on the ejector. The bore is in excellent condition; no pitting here. All the numbers on the gun itself match, although the grips are plastic aftermarket, and the mag is a correct WW2 aluminum-bottom mag but with a differing S/N. I was allowed to test-fire this Luger. It is very accurate and functioned flawlessly with several brands of ammo. I know that the collector value is shot, but it would make a very nice shooter. The seller wants $700. The price seems a little on the high side to me but I am soliciting opinions here. What say you?

John Sabato · 10-05-2003, 11:17 AM

Considering the "new" exterior condition, and the other fats you have presented... I would say that the price is not out of the ballpark, but it would be nice if you could get it for $100 or so less... Offer real green dollars in your hand of what you think the gun is worth and maybe you might walk away with it. MONEY often talks when verbal offers don't <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Dwight Gruber · 10-05-2003, 01:11 PM

Robert,

A harder-eyed opinion might suggest that the gun you are considering is over-priced by about $300. One might need to take into consideration how commonly Lugers are available in your part of the country, and how much they are generally selling for there.

--Dwight

Robert W. Simms · 10-05-2003, 06:07 PM

I'm in the Nashville, TN area and Lugers are easy to find. However, any Luger that is (1) all matching (including wood grips and mag), (2) has no import marks, and (3) has at least 70% finish with some straw is probably a $2,000+ gun down here. Once you start adding one or more of the above delimiters then the price drops accordingly. I failed to mention that this Luger has no import marks, but as I said it has been buffed and re-blued. My gut feeling is that this is a $600 gun, and that is in line with John's thinking. Dwight's "harder-eyed" view would render this as a $400 gun, and might be correct for his part of the country. Even though Lugers are plentiful here, I have yet to see ANY $400 Lugers around here unless they are parts guns with missing pieces. Obviously, I intend to offer less than $700 for this specimen, but it shoots so accurately and reliably that I am willing to go an extra $50 or so to get a premium shooter. That means an offer of $600 and accept a counter-offer of $650. I would probably go for that unless more of you think that $600 is too much for an initial offer.

Dwight Gruber · 10-05-2003, 08:51 PM

Robert, see your private messages.

--Dwight

RockinWR · 10-05-2003, 11:07 PM

Robert,
* FWIW: Mauser S/42-1938 Army pistols were salt blued throughout including the small parts. I would not expect to see any straw parts on an Army example.
Respectfully,
Bob

Robert W. Simms · 10-06-2003, 06:14 PM

Thanks, Bob. I have a modest firearms library. One of the books I have is "The Luger Handbook" by Aarron Davis. On page 55 of the 1997 edition he describes the Mauser S/42 P.08's produced from 1936-1940. Under the "Finish" category Davis says "Salt blue. Ejector, magazine catch, takedown lever, thumb safety, and trigger all straw colored". You think he is definitely mistaken on this point?
-Robert

Frank · 10-06-2003, 07:30 PM

Robert, Rockin WR is correct. All parts should be blue. The Germans discontinued the straw process about half way through the 1937 production process (well closer to the 1/3 point, but who is counting that close) for Army pistols (Military Mausers).

While Aaron Davis produced a compact book, it has many errors (this is one) and the prices are well out dated. Try to get a better book!!!

Robert W. Simms · 10-06-2003, 09:04 PM

Thanks to both of you for the info. I also have "The Luger Story" by John Walter. He talks about rust and salt bluing, but is silent on the straw issue. I've been meaning to get Ralph Shattuck's book, but just haven't gotten around to it yet. Do either of you have other suggestions for technical reading?
-Robert

Dwight Gruber · 10-06-2003, 09:53 PM

Robert,

After buying and reading many books about the P-08, I have come to the conclusion that there is no one book which covers all the bases and is error-free. "The Luger Story" is OK, and will have given you about as good a general study of Luger as you will find.

I highly recommend as your next book purchase, "Lugers At Random" by Charles Kenyon, Jr., Handgun Press, Glenview, Illinois. I believe it is currently back in print, it can be found any number of places including, occasionally, ebay, or perhaps there is a bookseller at the larger gun shows in your area.

This is a large-format book, it has some basic Luger information and then goes through all the major (and many of the minor) Luger variations catalog-fashion, with photographs of each as a case study. It is a fairly old book (first published 1968) but remains the best general compendium of the Luger.

There are a number of other excellent books on the market, but they are detail and diagnostic studies of particular varieties of Lugers, and perhaps more than you are looking for right now. They are fairly expensive, to boot. "Lugers At Random" will certainly do for starters, and you may find that it takes your interest in the direction of one or more of the other books.

Happy reading.

--Dwight

Lugerdoc · 10-07-2003, 11:22 AM

Dwight, I agree that if a new luger fan wants only one reference, "Lugers at Random" is the one to have. I do also sell the latest edition new @$60 postpaid in the US. TH

10-05-2003, 10:46 AM	#1
Robert W. Simms User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mount Juliet, TN Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1938 S/42 query Hello: Thanks to all of you for the willingness to share your knowledge. This forum is great for a neophyte like me. I have the opportunity to buy a 1938 S/42 Luger "shooter". The gun looks very nice as it has been recently re-blued. Prior to the re-bluing it was buffed to remove some light surface pitting and this has softened some of the detail lines and made some of the markings less distinct. The only strawing left is on the ejector. The bore is in excellent condition; no pitting here. All the numbers on the gun itself match, although the grips are plastic aftermarket, and the mag is a correct WW2 aluminum-bottom mag but with a differing S/N. I was allowed to test-fire this Luger. It is very accurate and functioned flawlessly with several brands of ammo. I know that the collector value is shot, but it would make a very nice shooter. The seller wants $700. The price seems a little on the high side to me but I am soliciting opinions here. What say you?

10-05-2003, 11:17 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Considering the "new" exterior condition, and the other fats you have presented... I would say that the price is not out of the ballpark, but it would be nice if you could get it for $100 or so less... Offer real green dollars in your hand of what you think the gun is worth and maybe you might walk away with it. MONEY often talks when verbal offers don't <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-07-2003, 11:22 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Dwight, I agree that if a new luger fan wants only one reference, "Lugers at Random" is the one to have. I do also sell the latest edition new @$60 postpaid in the US. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-05-2003, 01:11 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Robert, A harder-eyed opinion might suggest that the gun you are considering is over-priced by about $300. One might need to take into consideration how commonly Lugers are available in your part of the country, and how much they are generally selling for there. --Dwight

10-05-2003, 06:07 PM	#4
Robert W. Simms User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mount Juliet, TN Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm in the Nashville, TN area and Lugers are easy to find. However, any Luger that is (1) all matching (including wood grips and mag), (2) has no import marks, and (3) has at least 70% finish with some straw is probably a $2,000+ gun down here. Once you start adding one or more of the above delimiters then the price drops accordingly. I failed to mention that this Luger has no import marks, but as I said it has been buffed and re-blued. My gut feeling is that this is a $600 gun, and that is in line with John's thinking. Dwight's "harder-eyed" view would render this as a $400 gun, and might be correct for his part of the country. Even though Lugers are plentiful here, I have yet to see ANY $400 Lugers around here unless they are parts guns with missing pieces. Obviously, I intend to offer less than $700 for this specimen, but it shoots so accurately and reliably that I am willing to go an extra $50 or so to get a premium shooter. That means an offer of $600 and accept a counter-offer of $650. I would probably go for that unless more of you think that $600 is too much for an initial offer.

10-05-2003, 08:51 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Robert, see your private messages. --Dwight

10-05-2003, 11:07 PM	#6
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Robert, * FWIW: Mauser S/42-1938 Army pistols were salt blued throughout including the small parts. I would not expect to see any straw parts on an Army example. Respectfully, Bob

10-06-2003, 06:14 PM	#7
Robert W. Simms User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mount Juliet, TN Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, Bob. I have a modest firearms library. One of the books I have is "The Luger Handbook" by Aarron Davis. On page 55 of the 1997 edition he describes the Mauser S/42 P.08's produced from 1936-1940. Under the "Finish" category Davis says "Salt blue. Ejector, magazine catch, takedown lever, thumb safety, and trigger all straw colored". You think he is definitely mistaken on this point? -Robert

10-06-2003, 07:30 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Robert, Rockin WR is correct. All parts should be blue. The Germans discontinued the straw process about half way through the 1937 production process (well closer to the 1/3 point, but who is counting that close) for Army pistols (Military Mausers). While Aaron Davis produced a compact book, it has many errors (this is one) and the prices are well out dated. Try to get a better book!!!

10-06-2003, 09:04 PM	#9
Robert W. Simms User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mount Juliet, TN Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to both of you for the info. I also have "The Luger Story" by John Walter. He talks about rust and salt bluing, but is silent on the straw issue. I've been meaning to get Ralph Shattuck's book, but just haven't gotten around to it yet. Do either of you have other suggestions for technical reading? -Robert

10-06-2003, 09:53 PM	#10
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Robert, After buying and reading many books about the P-08, I have come to the conclusion that there is no one book which covers all the bases and is error-free. "The Luger Story" is OK, and will have given you about as good a general study of Luger as you will find. I highly recommend as your next book purchase, "Lugers At Random" by Charles Kenyon, Jr., Handgun Press, Glenview, Illinois. I believe it is currently back in print, it can be found any number of places including, occasionally, ebay, or perhaps there is a bookseller at the larger gun shows in your area. This is a large-format book, it has some basic Luger information and then goes through all the major (and many of the minor) Luger variations catalog-fashion, with photographs of each as a case study. It is a fairly old book (first published 1968) but remains the best general compendium of the Luger. There are a number of other excellent books on the market, but they are detail and diagnostic studies of particular varieties of Lugers, and perhaps more than you are looking for right now. They are fairly expensive, to boot. "Lugers At Random" will certainly do for starters, and you may find that it takes your interest in the direction of one or more of the other books. Happy reading. --Dwight