K-Date on Auction....

[Pete Ebbink]

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3820282

Interesting machining marks on the right frame "ear"...or maybe it's just photographic...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[drbuster]

What a beauty! I believe Pete's concern is just photo reflection. I do not think this piece is restored, as the seller intimates. It looks to me like a pristine S/42 K.

[drbuster]

Checking in Jan Still's Third Reich Lugers, pages 15 & 16, this piece fits into the castegory as "subvariation 1", with an estimated total produced of 1700. The scriptic proofs on all the parts is correct. For $299, this would seem to be the steal of the 21st century (so far!). I'm sure the bidding will go higher!!!

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

Thor; does the blue look like Rust Blue to you, or is it to black?
Lonnie

[Dwight Gruber]

Herb,

Look at the trigger plate island, muzzle, left-side frame flat, grip panels, the way the grips fit up under the trigger plate. Puts me in mind of the aphorism, "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is."

That being said, the seller has stated right up front that he thinks it is a restoration, and it is a really nice piece.

--Dwight

[drbuster]

Dear Dwight, You are absolutely right in what you say, one has to be wary. You can't quibble over the price, though, and you get that 3 day inspection trial. I have encountered some pristine original (per Ralph, Mike Krause, etc.) Oberndorf made pieces that looked like this piece, but they were Mauser banner police or commercial examples. This S/42 K, if un-messed with would probably be considered a "sock drawer" gun. I will watch the auction with interest.

[John Sabato]

I concur with Dwight that this gun appears to be a refinish... a nice one, but a refinish non-the-less...

I always look closely at the crispness of the machined edges on a gun to get an idea if it has ever met a buffing wheel since it left the factory...

In the areas circled in red in this enlargement of a portion of the photos in the auction, the edges IMHO look to be too "soft" in appearance to be the original polished metal finish prior to blueing... I like to see a crisp edge here where the line that runs almost the length of the receiver is "broken" by being relieved...



Here is an example with a red arrow pointing to a "crisp" line in this area:



Any other strong opinions on this?

[Navy]

A re-do

Tom A.

[Thor]

IMO, I believe a refinish and perhaps a restamp. 1.The S on the sideplate appears too high and not to the left of the serial number.
2. Most K dates have the S on the takedown (locking bolt) This one doesnt.
3. Never saw an S on the left side of the receiver
the first variations have the S above the acceptance marks on the RIGHT side of the receiver.
4. Strawing doesnt exhibit the striations of polish or direction I typical see.
5. By the top of the toggle link it appears to have a type 1 variation but the serial indicates a type 2 varition which should be a non fancy S.
Also S should be a smooth S if a type 2.
6. Would the MAgazines also be marked with an S (I have no idea on this one)?

[Frank]

Very good Thor!! Also, I would expect to see an "S" on the right side of the mag release button. While it may be a pretty pistol, it is well bastardized with "enhanced" marks and substitute parts. The magazines are really hokey!!

[ViggoG]

Pete
You are absolutly correct, and to make matters worse that is the typical pattern of tracks left by a very dull End Mill, with a few minutes i can tell the original size of the tool.
This can almost always be accepted as a sign of an original weapon, as it would be almost impossible to duplicate without the original setup for machining.
ViggoG

[drbuster]

The :"sleuthing" here is absolutely remarkable! Who needs a three day inspection trial with you guys around! The pics by "professor" Sabato are especially remarkable. There will be no bid from me!

[Thor]

John, the area you talk about is especially difficult to crisp up, the bottom part of the transistion can be cut back in pretty good with the bottom flat area, but the top is a curve to curve junction and is TOUGH to get crisp again if you need to remove a pit in here. Good eye!

[John Sabato]

Thanks Thor... and Viggo, you have a good eye too. I had not looked at the right toggle 'ear' closely before your post...

You can see that the inside of the ear's rim has definitely been worked on (possibly with a dremel tool) as evidenced by the mill marks being substantially polished out...

Here is the area Viggo was talking about:

[Thor]

One of the features that makes this Luger desireable to collectors is it is being sold as a K date. Notice there are no pictures of the "K"
That is another curosity to me.

[Silvereagle29]

The front end of the pistol doesn't look that bad to me. But it's a picture. The scriptic S on the left side doesn't bother me very much. I have seen these unusual Scriptic S's where Gothic S's should be. The Polishing on the rear receiver doesn't look very good. But after all it's a picture and we really cannot tell what reality might be. Keep in mind Mauser was really not up to speed when they started building these pistols. Early parts on late guns, changes in acceptance marks, etc. I have eight of these and they don't follow the guidlines in the books. Even a restoration is worth some bucks these days. Opinion for what it's worth.
Don

[Ron Wood]

There is a characteristic of K dates that does not appear to be evident on this piece. In exactly the area that John circled there is a "bruse" or what looks like a shallow dent or depression on each side of the receiver on the edge of the receiver just above the barrel. It either does not show up in the photo, has been polished out, or never existed in the first place. In this case, the edge is too sharp.