1906 M2 Portuguese

Big Norm · 07-07-2003, 10:44 PM

I was doing a quick study on Portuguese 1906 M2's and I came up with some sort of confict in authors that I trust. In John Walter's book, pg 213, there is supposed to be 'SEGURANCA' where 'GESICHERT' would normally be on a Luger. But in 'Lugers at Random' pg 134-135, its stated that this spot is supposed to be polished. Indeed, all the M2's that I have seen are polished. Anybody know the story here?
Big Norm

Ron Wood · 07-07-2003, 11:01 PM

The 1906 M2 Royal Army Lugers made by DWM have the polished safety area. Approximately 5000 of the M2 Lugers were authorized for purchase shortly after Manuel II assumed the throne after his father was assassinated. The 1935 GNR(Guardia Nationale Republicana - republican national guard after Portugal became a republic) is a 1906 pattern Luger with grip safety made by Mauser, and has the Mauser banner toggle as well as the GNR monogram over the chamber. This Luger has the SEGURANCA marking in the safety area. Only 564 GNR Lugers were delivered according to Portuguese records.

Lugerdoc · 07-08-2003, 09:48 AM

Ron, Right on. TH

John Sabato · 07-08-2003, 10:14 AM

Great information Ron! and seconded by Tom Heller... but would you be so kind as to reference your data for the neophyte Luger afficionados so they know where it came from... (and this oldtimer too

)

Thanks.

Ron Wood · 07-08-2003, 01:06 PM

References:

1. Tom Heller: Luger Forum ditto, 8 July 2003 (see above)

2. Ron Wood: Luger Forum 7 July 2003 (see above)

3. Walter, John: Ã¢??The Luger BookÃ¢?Â (1951), pg 231. This reference is WRONG, and it is this erroneous information about the M2 safety marking that started this thread. It is interesting to note that the Portuguese Luger was so little known at this time that Harry Jones in his Ã¢??Luger VariationsÃ¢?Â (1957) did not have pictures of any Portuguese Luger, and in the section Ã¢??Lugers Not Shown In The CatalogÃ¢?Â lists Ã¢??1909 PORTUGUESE (also 1934) with SEGURACA [sic] by thumb leverÃ¢?Â and Ã¢??PORTUGUESE: Reportedly with GNR over the chamberÃ¢?Â. Even by the 4th printing of the book in 1975, this information had not been updated.
4. Kenyon, Charles: Ã¢??Lugers at RandomÃ¢?Â (1969), pgs 134-135 (M2), pgs 254-255 (GNR)
5. Walter, John: Ã¢??LugerÃ¢?Â (1977), pg 182
6. Bender, Eugene: Ã¢??Luger Holsters and Accessories of the 20th CenturyÃ¢?Â (1992), pgs 434-435
7. Walter, John: Ã¢??The Luger StoryÃ¢?Â (1997), pg 124 (M2), pg 210 (GNR)

I am sure there are some other references, but this reading list should get you started.

Doubs · 07-08-2003, 02:21 PM

My M2 Portugese Luger, serial number 2088, has no safety marking and a bright oblong spot in the lower position that is covered by the safety lever when ready to fire.

Ron Wood · 07-08-2003, 02:27 PM

Doubs,
Exactly as it should be. Good gun.

Big Norm · 07-08-2003, 06:36 PM

Ron and others,
I made an offer for two consecutive numbered M2's on Auction Arms that was accepted. The safety issue had me concerned. I can rest in peace now. Thanks to everyone. I didn't pay the asking price either.
Big Norm

Ron Wood · 07-08-2003, 09:49 PM

Big Norm,
Fine guns, I think you made a very good deal...congratulations! Consecutive numbers of any model are a rarity, and to have two that are that are in very nice condition is especially difficult.

Big Norm · 07-09-2003, 12:13 AM

Thanks Ron,
its really a struggle to keep up with you, Murray, Doug and some other big shooters on this forum. CNBC is going to be here tomorrow (I hope with Maria Burrutomo) and some guy named Kent from the History channel is going to be here Thursday (I hope this is not Superman in disguise). <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

Seriously, the mags are supposed the be unmarked (no circled triangle). Circled triangle under the barrel and side of frame. The bore is slightly pitted. No touch ups. Light pitting on tip of barrels. Three day inspection and the guy came down quite a bite from his $3195 price. (It must have been my great personality because he couldn't see how good looking I am over the phone

) The rest I could see from all his pictures.

I have been looking for a nice M2 for long while so I can't wait to get these Lugers home for a better inspection. I really debated if I needed two of them. But My birthday is coming up soon and I said, "what the heck, do it. Happy birthday Big Norm!".
<img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />

Big Norm

Ron Wood · 07-09-2003, 12:42 AM

Happy birthday Big Norm indeed!

You really did quite well because I didn't think $3195 was too far off the mark! So when is your birthday?...mine is the 14th.

By the way I have consecutive 1906 Brazilians (going to sell one of them soon..I have decided I really don't need two because they are not as close in condition as your M2s) and consecutive 1900 US Test Trial Eagles (I'm not breaking them up! They are pretty nice and real close in condition).

As for giving yourself birthday presents, I have been doing it for years. Best wishes.

Big Norm · 07-09-2003, 02:49 PM

Ron,
my birthday is July 31st. I never married so I only get presents from myself. I started treating myself about five years ago with a very nice chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery with a matching mag from Shattuck. I may have paid too much, but what the heck, I deserve it. Now if I can only find THE stock and a 1914 holster rig for it. Anybody have stock number 7754? Its alright to give myself two birthday presents.
H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y R O N !!!
Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

07-07-2003, 10:44 PM	#1
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	1906 M2 Portuguese I was doing a quick study on Portuguese 1906 M2's and I came up with some sort of confict in authors that I trust. In John Walter's book, pg 213, there is supposed to be 'SEGURANCA' where 'GESICHERT' would normally be on a Luger. But in 'Lugers at Random' pg 134-135, its stated that this spot is supposed to be polished. Indeed, all the M2's that I have seen are polished. Anybody know the story here? Big Norm

07-07-2003, 11:01 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The 1906 M2 Royal Army Lugers made by DWM have the polished safety area. Approximately 5000 of the M2 Lugers were authorized for purchase shortly after Manuel II assumed the throne after his father was assassinated. The 1935 GNR(Guardia Nationale Republicana - republican national guard after Portugal became a republic) is a 1906 pattern Luger with grip safety made by Mauser, and has the Mauser banner toggle as well as the GNR monogram over the chamber. This Luger has the SEGURANCA marking in the safety area. Only 564 GNR Lugers were delivered according to Portuguese records. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-08-2003, 09:48 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ron, Right on. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-08-2003, 10:14 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Great information Ron! and seconded by Tom Heller... but would you be so kind as to reference your data for the neophyte Luger afficionados so they know where it came from... (and this oldtimer too ) Thanks. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-08-2003, 01:06 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	References: 1. Tom Heller: Luger Forum ditto, 8 July 2003 (see above) 2. Ron Wood: Luger Forum 7 July 2003 (see above) 3. Walter, John: Ã¢??The Luger BookÃ¢?Â (1951), pg 231. This reference is WRONG, and it is this erroneous information about the M2 safety marking that started this thread. It is interesting to note that the Portuguese Luger was so little known at this time that Harry Jones in his Ã¢??Luger VariationsÃ¢?Â (1957) did not have pictures of any Portuguese Luger, and in the section Ã¢??Lugers Not Shown In The CatalogÃ¢?Â lists Ã¢??1909 PORTUGUESE (also 1934) with SEGURACA [sic] by thumb leverÃ¢?Â and Ã¢??PORTUGUESE: Reportedly with GNR over the chamberÃ¢?Â. Even by the 4th printing of the book in 1975, this information had not been updated. 4. Kenyon, Charles: Ã¢??Lugers at RandomÃ¢?Â (1969), pgs 134-135 (M2), pgs 254-255 (GNR) 5. Walter, John: Ã¢??LugerÃ¢?Â (1977), pg 182 6. Bender, Eugene: Ã¢??Luger Holsters and Accessories of the 20th CenturyÃ¢?Â (1992), pgs 434-435 7. Walter, John: Ã¢??The Luger StoryÃ¢?Â (1997), pg 124 (M2), pg 210 (GNR) I am sure there are some other references, but this reading list should get you started. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-08-2003, 02:21 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,672 Thanks: 772 Thanked 1,618 Times in 527 Posts	My M2 Portugese Luger, serial number 2088, has no safety marking and a bright oblong spot in the lower position that is covered by the safety lever when ready to fire.

07-08-2003, 02:27 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Doubs, Exactly as it should be. Good gun. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-08-2003, 06:36 PM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron and others, I made an offer for two consecutive numbered M2's on Auction Arms that was accepted. The safety issue had me concerned. I can rest in peace now. Thanks to everyone. I didn't pay the asking price either. Big Norm

07-08-2003, 09:49 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Big Norm, Fine guns, I think you made a very good deal...congratulations! Consecutive numbers of any model are a rarity, and to have two that are that are in very nice condition is especially difficult. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-09-2003, 12:13 AM	#10
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks Ron, its really a struggle to keep up with you, Murray, Doug and some other big shooters on this forum. CNBC is going to be here tomorrow (I hope with Maria Burrutomo) and some guy named Kent from the History channel is going to be here Thursday (I hope this is not Superman in disguise). <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> Seriously, the mags are supposed the be unmarked (no circled triangle). Circled triangle under the barrel and side of frame. The bore is slightly pitted. No touch ups. Light pitting on tip of barrels. Three day inspection and the guy came down quite a bite from his $3195 price. (It must have been my great personality because he couldn't see how good looking I am over the phone ) The rest I could see from all his pictures. I have been looking for a nice M2 for long while so I can't wait to get these Lugers home for a better inspection. I really debated if I needed two of them. But My birthday is coming up soon and I said, "what the heck, do it. Happy birthday Big Norm!". <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" /> Big Norm

07-09-2003, 12:42 AM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Happy birthday Big Norm indeed! You really did quite well because I didn't think $3195 was too far off the mark! So when is your birthday?...mine is the 14th. By the way I have consecutive 1906 Brazilians (going to sell one of them soon..I have decided I really don't need two because they are not as close in condition as your M2s) and consecutive 1900 US Test Trial Eagles (I'm not breaking them up! They are pretty nice and real close in condition). As for giving yourself birthday presents, I have been doing it for years. Best wishes. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-09-2003, 02:49 PM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron, my birthday is July 31st. I never married so I only get presents from myself. I started treating myself about five years ago with a very nice chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery with a matching mag from Shattuck. I may have paid too much, but what the heck, I deserve it. Now if I can only find THE stock and a 1914 holster rig for it. Anybody have stock number 7754? Its alright to give myself two birthday presents. H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y R O N !!! Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />