Another "Hold Open" question.

[DW Stock]

I know there are many, many questions, out there, regarding the hold open device on the P08. I have not found an issue that is similar to mine though. I have a 1917 DWM with a WWII numbered magazine. The magazine isn't the best in the world and it is a bit loose in the fully seated position. Meaning that once the magazine clicks in position there is still a small amount of up and down movement. The toggle will lock open when the magazine is empty, but when I disengage the magazine, to remove it while in the locked back position, the toggle drops down. Would you consider this to be the function of the reloading button not depressing the hold open firmly enough, or would you consider a different cause? The hold open toggle looks fine and the slot in the breechblock appears fine. All of the parts move freely. It isn't that I want to shoot the P-08, (it is a family heirloom) I am just anal about having it work as it is supposed to.

Does anyone have an idea on where to look or heard of a problem such as this?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[ithacaartist]

David, WWII era mags are very often the aluminum-bottomed, milled, heavy-duty ones made by Haenel. If this is the case, they are generally reputed to work and hold up very well, and have great springs, as well. If it's a somewhat earlier, shell-constructed jobber, a check of its notch should be done becasuse it strikes me that they would wear more, when compared to the later ones. Get a Mec-gar and see if you have better results. The hold-open may have rounded corner-itis. or the mag is riding low at a point that its follower button will engage the hold-open enough to lock the toggle back when the button is at the top and helping, but not securely enough that the hold-open has enough of a "bite" without that support and consequently slip when the mag is yanked. A little vertical play in a mag is within expectations, but if it is excessive, all mags will ride low enough to cause the problem, and the mag catch would then be the culprit. Firing the pistol while supporting the mag from below is one rough test for this problem.

Depending on how long this has been going on, the edge of the hold-open should be checked for sharpness to make sure it's not a compound concert of quirks put together.

The Erma KGP series Hold-opens work the same way. One was misbehaving in exactly this same way. I dressed the corner of the hold-open, but no improvement. A new hold-open cured it completely. The earlier, mostly-zinc Erma toggle guns depend on a booger at the back of the mag follower, which sticks up enough when the mag is empty to catch the breech block and hold it back. I appreciate that they signal the empty mag, but the action snaps shut like a trap when the empty mag is removed...and you'd better not have any skin near it during the three-handed chore of taking out the mag after the last shot.

Let's see what others may advise...

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by DW Stock

I know there are many, many questions, out there, regarding the hold open device on the P08. I have not found an issue that is similar to mine though. I have a 1917 DWM with a WWII numbered magazine. The magazine isn't the best in the world and it is a bit loose in the fully seated position. Meaning that once the magazine clicks in position there is still a small amount of up and down movement. The toggle will lock open when the magazine is empty, but when I disengage the magazine, to remove it while in the locked back position, the toggle drops down. Would you consider this to be the function of the reloading button not depressing the hold open firmly enough, or would you consider a different cause? The hold open toggle looks fine and the slot in the breechblock appears fine. All of the parts move freely. It isn't that I want to shoot the P-08, (it is a family heirloom) I am just anal about having it work as it is supposed to.

Does anyone have an idea on where to look or heard of a problem such as this?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Magazine spring is a little weak, not fully recovering to full length after being loaded and shot. Replace spring. JMHO.

[Karl]

David,
I suggest that you remove the right grip panel and observe the position of the magazine button. It should rest against the quarter-rounded cut at the top of the grip frame. You should not be able to push it further up. If it passes this test then the magazine is not the problem and you have some rounded edges on the breech block recess, and or hold open.
KFS

[mrerick]

It is certainly possible that the magazine button is not pushing the hold open far enough up to ensure engagement with the slide. If it's just on the edge, removing upward pressure might allow the slide to slip off.

Double check the rear face of the hold open lug that engages the receiver, and the place on the receiver that it engages. It is not that unusual for the face of this part to be damaged.

This may be worn, chipped or in some other way damaged, allowing the receiver to slip off the hold open when upward pressure is removed by removing the magazine.

Also check to make sure that the very small leaf spring on the tip of the hold open is formed properly and has not been bent, snapped off or otherwise damaged.

Marc