DWM or Erfurt Magazines

cirelaw · 05-22-2016, 10:29 AM

Is there a difference?

jrwinter44 · 05-22-2016, 10:58 AM

The first two appear to be numbered factory replacements and the others are also Erfurt but in the standard numbering pattern.

cirelaw · 05-22-2016, 11:45 AM

Were all DWM unmarked?

DonVoigt · 05-22-2016, 11:55 AM

Yes,
there are different "Erfurts", early ones- before 1916 approx.- had two crown/letter inspection marks, as do the two on the left. Later one crown/letter sufficed.

I seriously doubt the two on the left are "replacements".

DWM commercial mags were not numbered.
DWM military mags were numbered, including, suffix, with a "+" on the spare mag.

There are exceptions of course.

Replacement mags get really complicated really quickly, they can have all sorts of combinations.

cirelaw · 05-22-2016, 12:55 PM

I just noticed this small mark on this otherwise unmarked mag! I do own a Test Luger and wondered if they are related~

alanint · 05-22-2016, 01:48 PM

Don't forget the small "indent" on the side of the magazines. DWM produced a "D" shaped indent, while Erfurt's was more of a straight bar.

spacecoast · 05-22-2016, 01:58 PM

Eric -

That looks like it's a "flaming bomb" magazine, normally associated with DWM Old Model Commercial Lugers. Here's a thread where several were shown.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...686#post287686

cirelaw · 05-22-2016, 02:40 PM

Tks! My only other early commercial is my 1902 fat barrel which has its distinctive 9mm/cal.~

George Anderson · 05-22-2016, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Don't forget the small "indent" on the side of the magazines. DWM produced a "D" shaped indent, while Erfurt's was more of a straight bar.

DWM mags have a trapezoidal indent like the Erfurts up until mid 1911.

cirelaw · 05-22-2016, 02:58 PM

George, is this what you are referring to~~

George Anderson · 05-22-2016, 03:31 PM

No Eric, the little crimp on either side of the tube near the mouth.

jrwinter44 · 05-22-2016, 03:50 PM

All Erfurt replacements I've had have had two proofs on the base with no serial number. That these could have been used to supplement other supplies in production would not be unlikely.

cirelaw · 05-22-2016, 04:10 PM

It seems they all have little crimps on either side close to the mouth~

George Anderson · 05-22-2016, 04:30 PM

Eric, the third from the left and fifth from the left have trapezoidal crimps and are either early DWMs or Erfurts.

George Anderson · 05-22-2016, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrwinter44

All Erfurt replacements I've had have had two proofs on the base with no serial number. That these could have been used to supplement other supplies in production would not be unlikely.

True early Erfurt mags were unnumbered with two acceptance stamps but all pre 1916 issue mags were numbered with two acceptance stamps. See the photos below. The spare with this rig was an unnumbered stamped mag.

George Anderson · 05-22-2016, 04:45 PM

Photos

cirelaw · 05-22-2016, 04:53 PM

Perfect!!!

jrwinter44 · 05-22-2016, 06:55 PM

Nice pictures! The last Erfurt I had was a 1914 artillery and it didn't last long. Otherwise, I'm more of a DWM fan.

jrwinter44 · 05-22-2016, 06:58 PM

The last Erfurt I had was a 1914 artillery which I traded, being more of a DWM fan. I knew it was scarce but the bore condition left a lot to be desired. Have never heard that pre-1916 Erfurt mags were unnumbered before.

George Anderson · 05-22-2016, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrwinter44

The last Erfurt I had was a 1914 artillery which I traded, being more of a DWM fan. I knew it was scarce but the bore condition left a lot to be desired. Have never heard that pre-1916 Erfurt mags were unnumbered before.

All military contract Lugers came with two serial numbered mags with the exception of Navise and artilleries. The Navies with three mags and the artilleries with perhaps as many as seven serial numbered mags.

05-22-2016, 10:29 AM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	DWM or Erfurt Magazines Is there a difference? Attached Thumbnails

05-22-2016, 11:45 AM	#3
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	Were all DWM unmarked? Attached Thumbnails

05-22-2016, 11:55 AM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,352 Times in 2,040 Posts	Yes, there are different "Erfurts", early ones- before 1916 approx.- had two crown/letter inspection marks, as do the two on the left. Later one crown/letter sufficed. I seriously doubt the two on the left are "replacements". DWM commercial mags were not numbered. DWM military mags were numbered, including, suffix, with a "+" on the spare mag. There are exceptions of course. Replacement mags get really complicated really quickly, they can have all sorts of combinations. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-22-2016, 12:55 PM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	I just noticed this small mark on this otherwise unmarked mag! I do own a Test Luger and wondered if they are related~ Attached Thumbnails

05-22-2016, 02:58 PM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	George, is this what you are referring to~~ Attached Thumbnails

05-22-2016, 10:58 AM	#2
jrwinter44 User Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 21 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	The first two appear to be numbered factory replacements and the others are also Erfurt but in the standard numbering pattern.

05-22-2016, 01:48 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Don't forget the small "indent" on the side of the magazines. DWM produced a "D" shaped indent, while Erfurt's was more of a straight bar.

05-22-2016, 01:58 PM	#7
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	Eric - That looks like it's a "flaming bomb" magazine, normally associated with DWM Old Model Commercial Lugers. Here's a thread where several were shown. http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...686#post287686

05-22-2016, 02:40 PM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	Tks! My only other early commercial is my 1902 fat barrel which has its distinctive 9mm/cal.~

05-22-2016, 03:31 PM	#11
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,530 Times in 787 Posts	No Eric, the little crimp on either side of the tube near the mouth.

05-22-2016, 03:50 PM	#12
jrwinter44 User Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 21 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	All Erfurt replacements I've had have had two proofs on the base with no serial number. That these could have been used to supplement other supplies in production would not be unlikely.

05-22-2016, 04:10 PM	#13
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	It seems they all have little crimps on either side close to the mouth~ Attached Thumbnails

05-22-2016, 04:30 PM	#14
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,530 Times in 787 Posts	Eric, the third from the left and fifth from the left have trapezoidal crimps and are either early DWMs or Erfurts.

05-22-2016, 04:45 PM	#16
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,530 Times in 787 Posts	Photos Attached Thumbnails

05-22-2016, 04:53 PM	#17
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	Perfect!!!

05-22-2016, 06:55 PM	#18
jrwinter44 User Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 21 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Nice pictures! The last Erfurt I had was a 1914 artillery and it didn't last long. Otherwise, I'm more of a DWM fan.

05-22-2016, 06:58 PM	#19
jrwinter44 User Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 21 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	The last Erfurt I had was a 1914 artillery which I traded, being more of a DWM fan. I knew it was scarce but the bore condition left a lot to be desired. Have never heard that pre-1916 Erfurt mags were unnumbered before.