Locking Bolt issues

Elapid · 02-19-2016, 08:39 PM

The spring is in the frame but I can't get the locking bolt to go all the way into the frame. Is there some trick to this or is it a a press fit?

CAP Black · 02-19-2016, 10:37 PM

You had to twist to get it out and then youmust properly position it and twist to get it to go into place and lock.
If that is what you are asking.
Jack

Elapid · 02-19-2016, 11:24 PM

Twist the locking bolt? Can't twist it before it gets seated in the frame. It fell out when I was working on the trigger lever. I was thinking about heating the frame and see if I cam get the locking bolt to slide all the way in. The locking bolt can't twist at all until it is all the was in the frame.

alanint · 02-19-2016, 11:42 PM

Once you orient the locking bolt. It sometimes takes a light tap or two to get it positioned over the locking spring. Try a brass punch and tap the locking bolt until it seats. DO NOT attempt this method if your spring is a reproduction !! They tend to be thicker and forcing the locking bolt over one might jam things up, but good.

Elapid · 02-20-2016, 01:30 AM

Thanks alanint, I don't have a brass punch will get one tomorrow. I'm having a blast learning about the Luger. Will probably get it back out to the range and see if I have it fixed this weekend. This board is a tremendous help learning a new to me Luger.
Edit to add: I don't know what spring I have but the numbers are all the same so I'm thinking it not a Frankenstein.

alanint · 02-20-2016, 07:26 AM

A quick expedient for a brass punch is to put a spent .22 cal shell casing over the head of a steel punch

Edward Tinker · 02-20-2016, 09:20 AM

I moved these questions to its OWN thread, since it was tacked onto a thread from 2008...

Also made it where you can get notified

Moderator Ed

I think I understand what you need - the locking bolt spring was replaced and you're asking how to seat it?
If yes, then you get it into place and for e, it snaps into place as you push the locking bolt in.

If you're asking why the locking bolt is to tight, there can be several reasons, usually little to do with the spring, more to do with the sideplate or the locking bolt.

Since matching numbers, they usually are not that tight.

Elapid · 02-20-2016, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Once you orient the locking bolt. It sometimes takes a light tap or two to get it positioned over the locking spring. Try a brass punch and tap the locking bolt until it seats. DO NOT attempt this method if your spring is a reproduction !! They tend to be thicker and forcing the locking bolt over one might jam things up, but good.

I don't know what spring I have in the frame, what do I do if I don't know or have a reproduction spring? I have matching #'s throughout the pistol and was going to remove the bolt spring but not sure I understand how it comes out.

Edit to add: ( I figured this position out ) This spring is supposed to go the the side of the frame? ie you will be able to see it on the side of the frame when the bolt is in place when it's all together.

mrerick · 02-20-2016, 03:52 PM

If it's an all matching gun, it would be very unusual to end up having to force things. These were hand fitted. Be very careful before you start hammering things...

The spring we're talking about is a little 1/2 inch (or so) piece of wire with a small length bent to form an "L". It will have some of it's circumference shaved off in the middle. The short length of the "L" fits into a very small hole toward the right side on the bottom side of the front of the frame. It's inserted from the RIGHT side of the locking bolt hole.

Note that I'm not talking about the recoil spring in the grip of the frame. This one is up front above and forward of the trigger.

After inserting the spring, you insert the locking bolt. It should then rotate with a slot on the locking bolt mating with the spring when in the locked position.

If the locking bolt will not rotate in the frame without the receiver on, then either the spring is in the wrong position, not lying in it's channel, or it needs to be formed slightly. If it rotates and you can feel the indent catch the spring, try installing the receiver. Make sure you get the recoil spring catch hooks properly installed on the toggle lever.

You have to hold the receiver back about 1/8th of an inch from flush with the front of the frame while engaging the locking bolt.

Elapid · 02-20-2016, 04:13 PM

mreick, The locking bolt spring is in the frame but I can't get the locking bolt to go all the way into position on the frame. I can't turn it because it's not in all the way, the bolt won't turn until it is in fully.

Edward Tinker · 02-20-2016, 04:48 PM

It can feel that way, but unless you've had the spring out, and no reason to do so unless replacing it, the bolt will feel forced and then just pop into place.

Sometimes you have to push the locking bolt and it will just go - it IS possible the spring is not seated, again, it will take a bit of force, then pop in...

ed

mrerick · 02-20-2016, 04:59 PM

If the spring is properly seated (the short part of the "L" is fully inserted into the little hole in the frame, it's probable that it's pushing the bolt off center as you try and insert it.

As you push the locking bolt into position, try pushing down on the locking bolt body exposed in the middle of the frame. Once it's aligned it should pop into place.

If this doesn't work, the spring may need to be formed to relieve a little of the pressure. That is why the little curve is shaved out of the middle of the spring.

Elapid · 02-20-2016, 05:56 PM

I have tried pushing the bolt, yes the spring is pushing it off center and when I push it to the center the end of the spring will go down in the slot. What puzzles me is that it fell out and now it almost looks like the frame needs to be line bored which I know it doesn't. It just won't go in even when everything is lined up.

ithacaartist · 02-20-2016, 10:41 PM

The confusion here is that the spring let the bolt fall out, and the bolt refuses to seat when reassembling, right? In a mechanical situation, something that falls out of something else should fall right back in, and in this respect, the situation makes no sense.

If the bolt fell out, something is up with the spring, period. It is bent, broken, or lost its springiness. Get a new original from Lugerdoc. Should solve the problem...

Clean out the spring's slot and hole slick as a whistle before reassembly 1 drop of oil. Make sure the little tail of the spring's L goes nicely into its hole, and that the bowed part is in its slot all the way. Now slide the bolt in until there is resistance. Look into the hole on the back side to observe whatever misalignment there is, and adjust things by torquing on the handle end of the bolt. Once the bolt is aligned is when it needs the firm push or tap to move it into final position.

You want to clamp the grip frame securely in a vise with pads or non-marring jaws, which will make the manipulation of everything so much easier.

Edward Tinker · 02-20-2016, 11:03 PM

I have had locking bolts that seem off-set and won't go in. My solution has been by holding it steady and then popping it in with a non-marring hammer (small, nylon head) to get it in....

These were matching lugers - I do not remember if the springs were wonky, broken or bent.

Elapid · 02-21-2016, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

The confusion here is that the spring let the bolt fall out, and the bolt refuses to seat when reassembling, right? In a mechanical situation, something that falls out of something else should fall right back in, and in this respect, the situation makes no sense.

If the bolt fell out, something is up with the spring, period. It is bent, broken, or lost its springiness. Get a new original from Lugerdoc. Should solve the problem...

Clean out the spring's slot and hole slick as a whistle before reassembly 1 drop of oil. Make sure the little tail of the spring's L goes nicely into its hole, and that the bowed part is in its slot all the way. Now slide the bolt in until there is resistance. Look into the hole on the back side to observe whatever misalignment there is, and adjust things by torquing on the handle end of the bolt. Once the bolt is aligned is when it needs the firm push or tap to move it into final position.

You want to clamp the grip frame securely in a vise with pads or non-marring jaws, which will make the manipulation of everything so much easier.

This almost has to be the answer, how do I get the old spring out? Once I get it out I should be able to slide the bolt in with no resistance. If it does simply get a hopefully original spring installed and it will snap together. I'm going to focus on getting the old spring out now. Any tips on getting a spring out of a hole that spent the last 64 years in the hole?

Elapid · 02-21-2016, 12:28 AM

OK Here's where I am, I have part of the spring about 1/4" sticking straight out of the Hole it goes into. trying to push it up broke most of it with the rest sticking straight out of the hole. I't been soaking in oil all day. Do you think heat might loosen it up to where I could get it out? What should I use to pull it out? Worse case scenario would be to have it break off flush with the frame where I'd have to drill it out, that might be tricky.

DonVoigt · 02-21-2016, 12:39 AM

STOP, take a rest.

One can't drill it out, you will ruin the frame, the spring is harder than the surrounding metal and the drill will dive off center.

Take a picture of what you have and post it.

I would use a punch from the bottom to the inside of the retaining hole, you will likely have to make one, the driving diameter should be just a little longer than the thickness of the frame where the hole is, other wise it will bend; of course it must be smaller than the hole.

Sometimes you can improvise using a paper clip, sounds nuts, but they are pretty strong.
Find one that will enter the hole, cut it off just a bit longer and tap. Soaking should allow it to move.

If you can get to the part sticking out with stout needle nose pliers or needle nose vise grips,
grab it and twist and pull at the same time.

if you can't get it out, bite the bullet and send it to lugerdoc.

ithacaartist · 02-21-2016, 12:45 AM

An impromptu but effective punch can be made from the shank of a drill bit that will slip into the hole on the underside. Maybe another soak in penetrating oil or kerosene, then tap the leg of the spring up and out, from below. I'd refrain from heat, which is probably unnecessary. Oh, and definitely what Don says about the drill!

Elapid · 02-21-2016, 12:54 AM

Bingo, the locking bolt spring is out and I can fit the bolt in easy. Now where do I get a replacement spring that will work? Apparently There are some "reproduction" springs that don't work that well. I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel now. Lugerdoc is what ithacaartist mentioned. I'm imagining that is a fellow board member on the board?

You how know you get discouraged when your working on an unfamiliar firearm and the feeling you get when suddenly you see the fix? ithacaartist your going on my friends list, I guess I need to talk to Lugerdoc about getting a new spring. Thank you everybody, this is now where I go to talk anything Luger.

02-19-2016, 08:39 PM	#1
Elapid User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: MS Posts: 24 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Locking Bolt issues The spring is in the frame but I can't get the locking bolt to go all the way into the frame. Is there some trick to this or is it a a press fit? Last edited by Edward Tinker; 02-20-2016 at 09:18 AM.

02-19-2016, 11:24 PM	#3
Elapid User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: MS Posts: 24 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Twist the locking bolt? Can't twist it before it gets seated in the frame. It fell out when I was working on the trigger lever. I was thinking about heating the frame and see if I cam get the locking bolt to slide all the way in. The locking bolt can't twist at all until it is all the was in the frame. Last edited by Elapid; 02-20-2016 at 10:14 PM.

02-20-2016, 03:52 PM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	If it's an all matching gun, it would be very unusual to end up having to force things. These were hand fitted. Be very careful before you start hammering things... The spring we're talking about is a little 1/2 inch (or so) piece of wire with a small length bent to form an "L". It will have some of it's circumference shaved off in the middle. The short length of the "L" fits into a very small hole toward the right side on the bottom side of the front of the frame. It's inserted from the RIGHT side of the locking bolt hole. Note that I'm not talking about the recoil spring in the grip of the frame. This one is up front above and forward of the trigger. After inserting the spring, you insert the locking bolt. It should then rotate with a slot on the locking bolt mating with the spring when in the locked position. If the locking bolt will not rotate in the frame without the receiver on, then either the spring is in the wrong position, not lying in it's channel, or it needs to be formed slightly. If it rotates and you can feel the indent catch the spring, try installing the receiver. Make sure you get the recoil spring catch hooks properly installed on the toggle lever. You have to hold the receiver back about 1/8th of an inch from flush with the front of the frame while engaging the locking bolt. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-20-2016, 04:59 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	If the spring is properly seated (the short part of the "L" is fully inserted into the little hole in the frame, it's probable that it's pushing the bolt off center as you try and insert it. As you push the locking bolt into position, try pushing down on the locking bolt body exposed in the middle of the frame. Once it's aligned it should pop into place. If this doesn't work, the spring may need to be formed to relieve a little of the pressure. That is why the little curve is shaved out of the middle of the spring. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-20-2016, 10:41 PM	#14
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,288 Thanks: 7,033 Thanked 2,482 Times in 1,323 Posts	The confusion here is that the spring let the bolt fall out, and the bolt refuses to seat when reassembling, right? In a mechanical situation, something that falls out of something else should fall right back in, and in this respect, the situation makes no sense. If the bolt fell out, something is up with the spring, period. It is bent, broken, or lost its springiness. Get a new original from Lugerdoc. Should solve the problem... Clean out the spring's slot and hole slick as a whistle before reassembly 1 drop of oil. Make sure the little tail of the spring's L goes nicely into its hole, and that the bowed part is in its slot all the way. Now slide the bolt in until there is resistance. Look into the hole on the back side to observe whatever misalignment there is, and adjust things by torquing on the handle end of the bolt. Once the bolt is aligned is when it needs the firm push or tap to move it into final position. You want to clamp the grip frame securely in a vise with pads or non-marring jaws, which will make the manipulation of everything so much easier. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

02-19-2016, 10:37 PM	#2
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	You had to twist to get it out and then youmust properly position it and twist to get it to go into place and lock. If that is what you are asking. Jack

02-19-2016, 11:42 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Once you orient the locking bolt. It sometimes takes a light tap or two to get it positioned over the locking spring. Try a brass punch and tap the locking bolt until it seats. DO NOT attempt this method if your spring is a reproduction !! They tend to be thicker and forcing the locking bolt over one might jam things up, but good.

02-20-2016, 01:30 AM	#5
Elapid User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: MS Posts: 24 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks alanint, I don't have a brass punch will get one tomorrow. I'm having a blast learning about the Luger. Will probably get it back out to the range and see if I have it fixed this weekend. This board is a tremendous help learning a new to me Luger. Edit to add: I don't know what spring I have but the numbers are all the same so I'm thinking it not a Frankenstein.

02-20-2016, 07:26 AM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	A quick expedient for a brass punch is to put a spent .22 cal shell casing over the head of a steel punch

02-20-2016, 09:20 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	I moved these questions to its OWN thread, since it was tacked onto a thread from 2008... Also made it where you can get notified Moderator Ed I think I understand what you need - the locking bolt spring was replaced and you're asking how to seat it? If yes, then you get it into place and for e, it snaps into place as you push the locking bolt in. If you're asking why the locking bolt is to tight, there can be several reasons, usually little to do with the spring, more to do with the sideplate or the locking bolt. Since matching numbers, they usually are not that tight.

02-20-2016, 04:13 PM	#10
Elapid User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: MS Posts: 24 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	mreick, The locking bolt spring is in the frame but I can't get the locking bolt to go all the way into position on the frame. I can't turn it because it's not in all the way, the bolt won't turn until it is in fully.

02-20-2016, 04:48 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	It can feel that way, but unless you've had the spring out, and no reason to do so unless replacing it, the bolt will feel forced and then just pop into place. Sometimes you have to push the locking bolt and it will just go - it IS possible the spring is not seated, again, it will take a bit of force, then pop in... ed

02-20-2016, 05:56 PM	#13
Elapid User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: MS Posts: 24 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have tried pushing the bolt, yes the spring is pushing it off center and when I push it to the center the end of the spring will go down in the slot. What puzzles me is that it fell out and now it almost looks like the frame needs to be line bored which I know it doesn't. It just won't go in even when everything is lined up.

02-20-2016, 11:03 PM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	I have had locking bolts that seem off-set and won't go in. My solution has been by holding it steady and then popping it in with a non-marring hammer (small, nylon head) to get it in.... These were matching lugers - I do not remember if the springs were wonky, broken or bent.

02-21-2016, 12:28 AM	#17
Elapid User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: MS Posts: 24 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK Here's where I am, I have part of the spring about 1/4" sticking straight out of the Hole it goes into. trying to push it up broke most of it with the rest sticking straight out of the hole. I't been soaking in oil all day. Do you think heat might loosen it up to where I could get it out? What should I use to pull it out? Worse case scenario would be to have it break off flush with the frame where I'd have to drill it out, that might be tricky.

02-21-2016, 12:39 AM	#18
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	STOP, take a rest. One can't drill it out, you will ruin the frame, the spring is harder than the surrounding metal and the drill will dive off center. Take a picture of what you have and post it. I would use a punch from the bottom to the inside of the retaining hole, you will likely have to make one, the driving diameter should be just a little longer than the thickness of the frame where the hole is, other wise it will bend; of course it must be smaller than the hole. Sometimes you can improvise using a paper clip, sounds nuts, but they are pretty strong. Find one that will enter the hole, cut it off just a bit longer and tap. Soaking should allow it to move. If you can get to the part sticking out with stout needle nose pliers or needle nose vise grips, grab it and twist and pull at the same time. if you can't get it out, bite the bullet and send it to lugerdoc. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

02-21-2016, 12:45 AM	#19
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,288 Thanks: 7,033 Thanked 2,482 Times in 1,323 Posts	An impromptu but effective punch can be made from the shank of a drill bit that will slip into the hole on the underside. Maybe another soak in penetrating oil or kerosene, then tap the leg of the spring up and out, from below. I'd refrain from heat, which is probably unnecessary. Oh, and definitely what Don says about the drill! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

02-21-2016, 12:54 AM	#20
Elapid User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: MS Posts: 24 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bingo, the locking bolt spring is out and I can fit the bolt in easy. Now where do I get a replacement spring that will work? Apparently There are some "reproduction" springs that don't work that well. I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel now. Lugerdoc is what ithacaartist mentioned. I'm imagining that is a fellow board member on the board? You how know you get discouraged when your working on an unfamiliar firearm and the feeling you get when suddenly you see the fix? ithacaartist your going on my friends list, I guess I need to talk to Lugerdoc about getting a new spring. Thank you everybody, this is now where I go to talk anything Luger. Last edited by Elapid; 02-21-2016 at 01:56 AM.