Questions On an Auction

tke466 · 12-05-2014, 09:16 PM

I was looking around on GB and came across this...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=455104557

The red flags went off for me with a few things on the finish. Selfishly I hate to raise attention to a good opportunity but in this case I'm not in the bidding mood rather the learning mood.

For me the flags are the how light the Waffens are on the toggle and the lack of toggle marks on the rear. Also the matte finish on the slide, the presence of possible buffed out pits, and the pin and bar coloration (on toggle). Finally to some extent the plum coloration on the rear of the toggle. I have experience seeing plum on P38s but I can't say I've seen it with P08s... of course I'm very novice when it comes to P08s.

So what do you guys think? Am I right to have concern with originality???

Jeremy

alvin · 12-05-2014, 09:32 PM

Looks good to me. Some of these were in virtually new condition. And $0.01 starting, no reserve, that's a real auction. Bookmarked to see how much it will go.

Edward Tinker · 12-05-2014, 09:39 PM

Jeremy, the graphite looking pictures and the outside pictures almost look like different guns! The colors bother me. Could be lighting but I also don't like the finish, awful nice.

Holster I am unsure about...

Lets see what others say - Alvin likes it, and I don't...

alvin · 12-05-2014, 09:42 PM

The holster must be an collector add-on. This one has never been in service.

===
BTW, not my gun, and I don't know the seller. But this is the only way making sense. Otherwise, it cannot be in this shape.

DavidJayUden · 12-05-2014, 10:22 PM

That is a pretty odd 2 tone finish on the upper. Looks like they bead blasted the barrel extension prior to (re)blue. Left grip panel does not fit well at all, either. Zero bluing loss on the side plate, muzzle, etc.
A nice gun, but...
dju

wlyon · 12-05-2014, 10:50 PM

My vote is I do not like the color. I think this luger has been restored. Holster looks ,ok. Bill

alvin · 12-06-2014, 05:41 AM

Nothing wrong with it. But a few pictures were poorly taken, especially #81, and #89, might be caused by gun grease applied protecting the surface. There are late Astra 900, Mauser 1930, Schnellfeuer in unissued condition, being rare in condition dimension. I assume there are also a few byf Lugers in unissued condition. But as a military pistol, it's even rarer. Must be byf though, earlier German-made Lugers would be extremely unlikely. Large volume of byfs in excellent shape forms the base to support a few unusual ones, statistically that's possible.

It's a common practice for collectors to "rig" a nice pistol. My guess is the holster and tool were bound to the gun by collector, in this gun's collector stage, not in its tool stage.

DavidJayUden · 12-06-2014, 08:11 AM

Alvin:
It's your money, go for it...
dju

alvin · 12-06-2014, 09:07 AM

Not much budget left for this year. Had a bid on a RIA item. If not getting that one, I will give this one a try tomorrow if still within range. But Luger collectors are more generous than me on Lugers (like I am more generous on C96 than Luger collectors

, understandably), it could be hard to compete with others.

tke466 · 12-06-2014, 09:10 AM

It's good for the money at this time if it's legit.

If it's the real deal I'm surprised the gun has not surfaced within the circles once before.

Jeremy

sheepherder · 12-06-2014, 09:21 AM

Looks refinished to me; maybe walnut shell or corncob blasted. Very light buffing, quite well done. The plum colors would be a confirmation of re-bluing to me, but again, well done. No holster wear on sideplate or handling wear on grip straps, again an indication of refinish. Grips look new (repros). Plum colors maybe from poor heating of bluing solution/poor circulation.

It's at $1425 right now, another day to go. I'd say the complete 'rig' would not lose you any money at this price. I like it, and again at this price, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

A good "starter" Luger.

Hehe...Ask for more pictures...

tke466 · 12-06-2014, 09:56 AM

Another thing: This is E/135 stamped. Serial matches the block for this. Relatively low number of these for a BYF 41 if I've done my research right.

Thanks for everyone's input... I'm really learning a lot.

Jeremy

SIGP2101 · 12-06-2014, 02:12 PM

Refinished, quick glimpse through tons of pics and I see bluing inside pitting, front sight is mismatch. In too god shape for the age but traces of pitting all over and no wear on high points but obvious thinning on markings. Just look at the pic #28, side plate tells a nice story.

Keep my exclusive right to be wrong.

SIGP2101

alvin · 12-06-2014, 02:18 PM

Is the front sight of this variation supposed to be numbered to the gun?

Regarding the pits under blue, that would need in-hand inspection. They have 3-day return policy, and risk is only on postage.

cirelaw · 12-06-2014, 02:26 PM

96 photographs, A Blessed Mother, blued toggle pin and a definite reblue evident on outside pics. Most of all the price. It look too pretty for it genuine correct price.. Ask the seller if it went threw any restorations. Ill pulled up some Teds' site for comparison! Here areTed Post some rework examples. You be the judge~~A little over kill maybe!! I may be wrong and I hope I am. But I agree with Ed and others. There is a color issue thats more evident outside under our Blessed Mother~~~Eric http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ There has to be a joke here somewhere~~ Is there a patron saint for lugers~ Maybe St George~

alvin · 12-06-2014, 02:31 PM

Actually, it's not very pretty. Comparing with Mauser 1930, byf Luger is a coarse gun. A taste though, I mean, those purple color, those minor erosion on the ear, etc. That holster can be sold to reduce cost, this gun does not need it.

sheepherder · 12-06-2014, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

96 photographs, A Blessed Mother...

Our Lady of Guadalupe...How could any seller lie with Her looking on?...

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

...and risk is only on postage.

Postage both ways and FFL fees both in & out, unless buyer is FFL himself...And possibly state sales tax if buyer is in-state...

cirelaw · 12-06-2014, 02:55 PM

He might be a lawyer!! You can tell if they are lying if the move their lips! Eric, Esq.

cirelaw · 12-06-2014, 03:31 PM

Just Wondering, Would an alternative light source produce any reblueing or subsequent spot blueing? Or am I watching too many Forensic Files!

rhuff · 12-06-2014, 03:47 PM

I have to agree with some of the members above, as this finish just looks too suspect to me. I go back and forth, but in the end feel it is a re-do.....although a very good one.

12-05-2014, 09:16 PM	#1
tke466 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 20 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Questions On an Auction I was looking around on GB and came across this... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=455104557 The red flags went off for me with a few things on the finish. Selfishly I hate to raise attention to a good opportunity but in this case I'm not in the bidding mood rather the learning mood. For me the flags are the how light the Waffens are on the toggle and the lack of toggle marks on the rear. Also the matte finish on the slide, the presence of possible buffed out pits, and the pin and bar coloration (on toggle). Finally to some extent the plum coloration on the rear of the toggle. I have experience seeing plum on P38s but I can't say I've seen it with P08s... of course I'm very novice when it comes to P08s. So what do you guys think? Am I right to have concern with originality??? Jeremy

12-05-2014, 09:39 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Jeremy, the graphite looking pictures and the outside pictures almost look like different guns! The colors bother me. Could be lighting but I also don't like the finish, awful nice. Holster I am unsure about... Lets see what others say - Alvin likes it, and I don't... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-05-2014, 10:50 PM	#6
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,613 Times in 969 Posts	My vote is I do not like the color. I think this luger has been restored. Holster looks ,ok. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

12-06-2014, 09:21 AM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,413 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Looks refinished to me; maybe walnut shell or corncob blasted. Very light buffing, quite well done. The plum colors would be a confirmation of re-bluing to me, but again, well done. No holster wear on sideplate or handling wear on grip straps, again an indication of refinish. Grips look new (repros). Plum colors maybe from poor heating of bluing solution/poor circulation. It's at $1425 right now, another day to go. I'd say the complete 'rig' would not lose you any money at this price. I like it, and again at this price, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. A good "starter" Luger. Hehe...Ask for more pictures... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

12-05-2014, 09:32 PM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Looks good to me. Some of these were in virtually new condition. And $0.01 starting, no reserve, that's a real auction. Bookmarked to see how much it will go.

12-05-2014, 09:42 PM	#4
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The holster must be an collector add-on. This one has never been in service. === BTW, not my gun, and I don't know the seller. But this is the only way making sense. Otherwise, it cannot be in this shape.

12-05-2014, 10:22 PM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	That is a pretty odd 2 tone finish on the upper. Looks like they bead blasted the barrel extension prior to (re)blue. Left grip panel does not fit well at all, either. Zero bluing loss on the side plate, muzzle, etc. A nice gun, but... dju

12-06-2014, 05:41 AM	#7
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Nothing wrong with it. But a few pictures were poorly taken, especially #81, and #89, might be caused by gun grease applied protecting the surface. There are late Astra 900, Mauser 1930, Schnellfeuer in unissued condition, being rare in condition dimension. I assume there are also a few byf Lugers in unissued condition. But as a military pistol, it's even rarer. Must be byf though, earlier German-made Lugers would be extremely unlikely. Large volume of byfs in excellent shape forms the base to support a few unusual ones, statistically that's possible. It's a common practice for collectors to "rig" a nice pistol. My guess is the holster and tool were bound to the gun by collector, in this gun's collector stage, not in its tool stage.

12-06-2014, 08:11 AM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Alvin: It's your money, go for it... dju

12-06-2014, 09:07 AM	#9
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Not much budget left for this year. Had a bid on a RIA item. If not getting that one, I will give this one a try tomorrow if still within range. But Luger collectors are more generous than me on Lugers (like I am more generous on C96 than Luger collectors , understandably), it could be hard to compete with others.

12-06-2014, 09:10 AM	#10
tke466 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 20 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's good for the money at this time if it's legit. If it's the real deal I'm surprised the gun has not surfaced within the circles once before. Jeremy

12-06-2014, 09:56 AM	#12
tke466 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 20 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another thing: This is E/135 stamped. Serial matches the block for this. Relatively low number of these for a BYF 41 if I've done my research right. Thanks for everyone's input... I'm really learning a lot. Jeremy

12-06-2014, 02:12 PM	#13
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	Refinished, quick glimpse through tons of pics and I see bluing inside pitting, front sight is mismatch. In too god shape for the age but traces of pitting all over and no wear on high points but obvious thinning on markings. Just look at the pic #28, side plate tells a nice story. Keep my exclusive right to be wrong. SIGP2101

12-06-2014, 02:18 PM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Is the front sight of this variation supposed to be numbered to the gun? Regarding the pits under blue, that would need in-hand inspection. They have 3-day return policy, and risk is only on postage.

12-06-2014, 02:26 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	96 photographs, A Blessed Mother, blued toggle pin and a definite reblue evident on outside pics. Most of all the price. It look too pretty for it genuine correct price.. Ask the seller if it went threw any restorations. Ill pulled up some Teds' site for comparison! Here areTed Post some rework examples. You be the judge~~A little over kill maybe!! I may be wrong and I hope I am. But I agree with Ed and others. There is a color issue thats more evident outside under our Blessed Mother~~~Eric http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ There has to be a joke here somewhere~~ Is there a patron saint for lugers~ Maybe St George~

12-06-2014, 02:31 PM	#16
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Actually, it's not very pretty. Comparing with Mauser 1930, byf Luger is a coarse gun. A taste though, I mean, those purple color, those minor erosion on the ear, etc. That holster can be sold to reduce cost, this gun does not need it.

12-06-2014, 02:55 PM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	He might be a lawyer!! You can tell if they are lying if the move their lips! Eric, Esq.

12-06-2014, 03:31 PM	#19
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	Just Wondering, Would an alternative light source produce any reblueing or subsequent spot blueing? Or am I watching too many Forensic Files!

12-06-2014, 03:47 PM	#20
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	I have to agree with some of the members above, as this finish just looks too suspect to me. I go back and forth, but in the end feel it is a re-do.....although a very good one.