RIF contract?

Arminius · 10-13-2014, 04:29 PM

Hello!

Anybody ever heard of Rif Contract Lugers?

I assume, it´s about the Rif conflict in the 20´s in northern Africa?

TIA, Hermann

LU1900 · 10-14-2014, 12:02 PM

There's some luger for the german African colonies wich were lost post WWI because Versailles treaty but for RIF , I don't know , sorry

Don M · 10-14-2014, 12:24 PM

Here's a link you can use for starters: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...WM-BKIW-Lugers. For more info, you can search for "Riff" on this and Jan Still's forum.

Vlim · 10-14-2014, 02:02 PM

The Riff contract was meant for a group living in the Riff mountains in Morocco. The contract was never finalized and the pistols, without DWM marking on the toggle, were subsequently sold to the German police.

kikeformad · 10-14-2014, 02:38 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rif_War

Don M · 10-15-2014, 03:37 PM

Are we collectors guilty of mis-spelling "Rif/Riff?"

Arminius · 10-15-2014, 03:59 PM

"Das gute an der Sache war das dieser Kontrakt von der DWM
nicht mehr ausgeliefert werden konnte , weil der besagte Berberfürst als die Waffen zur Auslieferung bereit gewesen wären bereits einen Kopf kürzer war .....
Daher gingen die meisten dieser Waffen aus diesem Nummernkreis an die Weimarer Polizei oder in den privaten Handel.

Diese Waffen wurden zur Vorsicht von der DWM nach den Versailler Abkommen gefertigt: Lauf ist 98 mm und Kal. 7.65 mm Para, alles andere war ja verboten ."

in short:

the pistols were bought by an Emir / Sheik, but couldn´t be delivered, as he lived not long enough to receive them ...

sigh ... those were the days ...

Pistols were sold to Citizens or Weimar Police.

slightly less than 4" bbl, to be on the safe side, over 4" was forbidden by Versailles treaty.

What would such a gun without extras in nice condition ( strawing fine ) be worth?

Hermann

Arminius · 10-15-2014, 04:07 PM

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...13917p2ug7.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...13916p9ukl.jpg

buy?

Don M · 10-16-2014, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arminius

"Das gute an der Sache war das dieser Kontrakt von der DWM
nicht mehr ausgeliefert werden konnte , weil der besagte Berberfürst als die Waffen zur Auslieferung bereit gewesen wären bereits einen Kopf kürzer war .....
Daher gingen die meisten dieser Waffen aus diesem Nummernkreis an die Weimarer Polizei oder in den privaten Handel.

Diese Waffen wurden zur Vorsicht von der DWM nach den Versailler Abkommen gefertigt: Lauf ist 98 mm und Kal. 7.65 mm Para, alles andere war ja verboten ."

What is the source of this quote?

Dwight Gruber · 10-16-2014, 03:22 PM

[QUOTE=Arminius;261647 buy?[/QUOTE]

Not enough info. Need to know if it has a blank toggle, serial number, 9mm or .30 cal.? The side plate looks odd. "Conventional wisdom" is that all the Riff guns were sold to the German police, the commercial database tends to bear this out, although a couple of reports lack the details to be conclusive. No sear safety on this example.

--Dwight

Arminius · 10-16-2014, 03:33 PM

Info is from the seller.

Yes, the seller is very reluctant to send Pictures.

It´s in 7.65 mm Parabellum.

He wants 2 K. I think, I´ll skip it.

Hermann

Edward Tinker · 10-16-2014, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don M

Are we collectors guilty of mis-spelling "Rif/Riff?"

NO

Quote:

Wikipedia, This page was last modified on 27 September 2014 at 18:38.

I like wiki, but I take everything there with a grain of salt...

and the webpage they refer to, which says RIF then states, and it is spelled RIFF

Don M · 10-17-2014, 12:30 PM

It's interesting that this blank toggle Luger is 7.65 cal. While I haven't specifically studied it, it is my impression that the observed blank toggles are in 9 mm, which is consistent with their police service. It would also seem that the pistols clandestinely manufactured for the Riff contract would be 9 mm since they were intended for military service. Obviously, DWM was being "sneaky" in manufacturing these so I expect they would have ignored the IMKK limitations and manufactured these in 9 mm. If so, why is this one 7.65?

Arminius · 10-17-2014, 12:44 PM

Seriously:

I do not know this.

But why not in 7.65 mm?

It was the Swiss Army´s round until 1947.

And the Red Army´s 7,62 x 25 was only slightly more potent, and used until much later.

But I am VERY sure, that all RIF contract were the same caliber initially. And even if they made them in 9 mm, sales to Police and private persons was limited to 7.65 mm.

I DO NOT KNOW, but would rather suspect that pistols were rebarreled up to 9 mm after the weapons ban was ignored by the Nazis

Again: I do not know, just guessing!

Hermann

10-13-2014, 04:29 PM	#1
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	RIF contract? Hello! Anybody ever heard of Rif Contract Lugers? I assume, it´s about the Rif conflict in the 20´s in northern Africa? TIA, Hermann

10-14-2014, 12:02 PM	#2
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 911 Thanks: 46 Thanked 471 Times in 198 Posts	There's some luger for the german African colonies wich were lost post WWI because Versailles treaty but for RIF , I don't know , sorry __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

10-14-2014, 12:24 PM	#3
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Here's a link you can use for starters: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...WM-BKIW-Lugers. For more info, you can search for "Riff" on this and Jan Still's forum. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

10-14-2014, 02:38 PM	#5
kikeformad New User Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Rif War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rif_War

10-15-2014, 03:37 PM	#6
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Are we collectors guilty of mis-spelling "Rif/Riff?" __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

10-14-2014, 02:02 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	The Riff contract was meant for a group living in the Riff mountains in Morocco. The contract was never finalized and the pistols, without DWM marking on the toggle, were subsequently sold to the German police.

10-15-2014, 03:59 PM	#7
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	"Das gute an der Sache war das dieser Kontrakt von der DWM nicht mehr ausgeliefert werden konnte , weil der besagte Berberfürst als die Waffen zur Auslieferung bereit gewesen wären bereits einen Kopf kürzer war ..... Daher gingen die meisten dieser Waffen aus diesem Nummernkreis an die Weimarer Polizei oder in den privaten Handel. Diese Waffen wurden zur Vorsicht von der DWM nach den Versailler Abkommen gefertigt: Lauf ist 98 mm und Kal. 7.65 mm Para, alles andere war ja verboten ." in short: the pistols were bought by an Emir / Sheik, but couldn´t be delivered, as he lived not long enough to receive them ... sigh ... those were the days ... Pistols were sold to Citizens or Weimar Police. slightly less than 4" bbl, to be on the safe side, over 4" was forbidden by Versailles treaty. What would such a gun without extras in nice condition ( strawing fine ) be worth? Hermann

10-15-2014, 04:07 PM	#8
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...13917p2ug7.jpg http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...13916p9ukl.jpg buy?

10-16-2014, 03:22 PM	#10
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	[QUOTE=Arminius;261647 buy?[/QUOTE] Not enough info. Need to know if it has a blank toggle, serial number, 9mm or .30 cal.? The side plate looks odd. "Conventional wisdom" is that all the Riff guns were sold to the German police, the commercial database tends to bear this out, although a couple of reports lack the details to be conclusive. No sear safety on this example. --Dwight

10-16-2014, 03:33 PM	#11
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Info is from the seller. Yes, the seller is very reluctant to send Pictures. It´s in 7.65 mm Parabellum. He wants 2 K. I think, I´ll skip it. Hermann

10-17-2014, 12:30 PM	#13
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	It's interesting that this blank toggle Luger is 7.65 cal. While I haven't specifically studied it, it is my impression that the observed blank toggles are in 9 mm, which is consistent with their police service. It would also seem that the pistols clandestinely manufactured for the Riff contract would be 9 mm since they were intended for military service. Obviously, DWM was being "sneaky" in manufacturing these so I expect they would have ignored the IMKK limitations and manufactured these in 9 mm. If so, why is this one 7.65? __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

10-17-2014, 12:44 PM	#14
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Seriously: I do not know this. But why not in 7.65 mm? It was the Swiss Army´s round until 1947. And the Red Army´s 7,62 x 25 was only slightly more potent, and used until much later. But I am VERY sure, that all RIF contract were the same caliber initially. And even if they made them in 9 mm, sales to Police and private persons was limited to 7.65 mm. I DO NOT KNOW, but would rather suspect that pistols were rebarreled up to 9 mm after the weapons ban was ignored by the Nazis Again: I do not know, just guessing! Hermann