Odd BBLs From Numrich

[sheepherder]

...on eBay 08/21/2014...

A 6 1/4" 30 cal bbl and an 8" 30 cal bbl...

But no threads and no front sight base...

I suppose if you're into sweating/soldering a front sight base on after cutting the thread, then these would be good deals...At a reasonable price...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Luger-P-08-S...-/400755984567

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Luger-P-08-S...-/400755985122

Ignore the "Mauser" in the auction title; Numrich admits it is a mistake...

Kind of a strange way to make a replacement barrel... If you're going to the trouble of turning the taper and the shoulder, and chambering it, but not machine the front sight base, why not thread it??? It doesn't matter where the barrel indexes, there's no front sight, no feed ramp, and no extractor cut...

Edit: I put a bid on the 6 1/4" bbl...Just for S&G...

[sheepherder]

I posted this here because it is actually a kind of clever way to sell barrel blanks...You have to cut the threads before you can index the front sight ramp/blade, so they leave the front sight band round...

You cuts you threads, torques you barrel down, and then solders you front sight base on...And install you blade...

It's not how I would do it...Or even suggest it be done...FWIW, I would thread the front band as well and screw on a cut-off Luger front band/base/blade (internally threaded) indexed to line up correctly...Probably with a setscrew in the dovetail to hold it in place...

As sold, this is exactly what makes a gunsmith's heart sink when he sees a customer carrying a box into the shop...

[LU1900]

I have seen a ARI rebareled in 30 mauser : it works nicely and the cartridges goes in the mag , but if I remember only 5 or 6

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by LU1900

I have seen a ARI rebareled in 30 mauser : it works nicely and the cartridges goes in the mag , but if I remember only 5 or 6

I don't know what an ARI is, but Numrich acknowledged the caliber mistake - it's 30 Luger...

On Aug-21-14 at 06:33:11 PDT, seller added the following information:

PLEASE NOTE: Correction------This is .30 Luger caliber not Mauser!

[Ron Wood]

ARI is European for Artillery (LP08).

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

ARI is European for Artillery (LP08).

...And it stands for...???...

Well, if you wanted, you could deepen the chamber of these to make them 30 Mauser...

Edit: I would guess it would take a lot of grinding/milling/filing to get 30 Mauser cartridges (full length) to feed anywhere near reliably...Frame as well as magazine follower modification...

Single shot maybe, pushing cartridges in by hand from the top...With a reduced load...

I imagine firing surplus 'military' 30 Mauser in a re-chambered Luger would have similar effect to firing 30 cal Tokarev cartridges in a C96 Mauser...But more so...

Maybe if you had 30 cal wadcutters, seated to an OAL of ~1.360" in the Mauser cases...

[Olle]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Kind of a strange way to make a replacement barrel... If you're going to the trouble of turning the taper and the shoulder, and chambering it, but not machine the front sight base, why not thread it???

Maybe they are rejects. QC caught them right before they were threaded, and they were sold as metal scrap to Numrich. I get that feeling sometimes when I order from Numrich.

[alanint]

Just sent a S&W revolver hammer back to them. It was case hardened, but covered in rust and pits under the grease they shipped it in.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

Maybe they are rejects. QC caught them right before they were threaded, and they were sold as metal scrap to Numrich. I get that feeling sometimes when I order from Numrich.

If so, why turn the front sight band round??? Just scrap 'em...

There's no note about "More than one available"...Maybe a CNC test of each length that the coder forgot the sight band base???

I have bought 'scrap' from Numrich. S&W had a run of SS 659 slides that had been finished machined, but the roll-stamping was off, so S&W sheared them in half and Numrich sold the halves. I bought several and made long-slide [5" bbl] 659's out of them.

[sheepherder]

Well, the auctions are over. The 6 1/4" barrel was bought by "someone" [coff, coff] for $42; the 8" went for $31.

I'd say these prices are very good, as it would cost me in time more to machine these to this level of completion than my last employer paid me...IOW, more than two hours...

[Olle]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Well, the auctions are over. The 6 1/4" barrel was bought by "someone" [coff, coff] for $42; the 8" went for $31.

I'd say these prices are very good, as it would cost me in time more to machine these to this level of completion than my last employer paid me...IOW, more than two hours...

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist.

[sheepherder]

I git the 6 1/4" barrel in from Numrich today...I'm somewhat disappointed...

It may not be readily apparent, but the taper is quite 'fat' up where the shoulder is...More so than a 9mm or 7.65mm [100mm/98mm] barrel [first pic comparing 98mm/7.65 barrel to Numrich]...

The Numrich barrel measures .710" at a point 5/16" forward of the receiver flange surface...The Luger 7.65 barrel measues .620" at the same point...

I tapered a home-made 9mm barrel using 7.65 dimension at the barrel band and the point 5/16" from the receiver flange surface (IOW, a stretched 7.65mm taper)...That's it [second pic] compared to the Numrich barrel...

While my homemade tapered & stretched barrel is no show winner, IMHO the profile is much more esthetic than the Numrich barrel...

I don't see why the Numrich barrel was made so 'fat' at the rear...

The 7.65 Numrich chamber is 'sloppier' than my Clymer-reamed barrels...Lot more 'wiggle'...Thread stub is right-on in length and diameter...Bore looks OK...

Flange/shoulder is artillery thickness; not 98/100mm thickness...Numrich front sight band diameter is .008" greater; flange dia is .020" greater; end of taper in front is .018" less...

The dimensions on the Numrich barrel don't equate to anything I have here...In 7.65 or 9mm...Even the 6 1/4" OAL length is odd...

I suspect I'll probably end up re-tapering it...So that it has a 'stretched 7.65 barrel' taper, like my barrel in 2nd pic...

Another Numrich mystery...

[Olle]

Another Numrich mystery for sure...

Whatever it is, I guess it's still better than starting with a blank. The chamber is a bummer though. Is there enough meat on the flange to cut back, so you can deepen the chamber?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

Whatever it is, I guess it's still better than starting with a blank.

It was cheap enough to be worth a shot. It beats having to cut away all that steel to get down to the profile I want. It'll just be 5 or 6 taper cuts now.

The chamber is a bummer though. Is there enough meat on the flange to cut back, so you can deepen the chamber?

I won't bother. It may well be within tolerances, especially for military use. Clymer reamers are typically .002" over SAAMI case dimensions. That's way under specs for military. I don't really have any way to measure this chamber directly. No matter. I won't be shooting hot loads.

[Edward Tinker]

Rich, I don't understand how you can be sure of the threading. This is where my stupidity comes out I know. Surely you don't thread these by hand with a lathe?

Second question
If you have an old barrel with messed up threads, are there such things as a thread fixer? Like the type I have for small threads that are screwed up?

Ed

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Rich, I don't understand how you can be sure of the threading. This is where my stupidity comes out I know. Surely you don't thread these by hand with a lathe?

Second question
If you have an old barrel with messed up threads, are there such things as a thread fixer? Like the type I have for small threads that are screwed up?

Ed

Hi Ed
Threading them on his lathe by hand is exactly what he is doing. And it is the only way to get the threads concentric with the bore. It isn't rocket surgery . All it takes is the tools and appropriate instruction and practice of which he obviously has both. There are even videos on YouTube where you can see how simple (but tedious) a process it is. I am sure he could create a thread chaser (die) if he needs one but I am pretty sure they aren't available commercially for Luger barrel threads.

[sheepherder]

Yes, as John noted, I cut the threads on a lathe, feeding the 60º thread cutting tool bit in one thousandth at a time, until I get close then I switch to 1/2 thousandth. My tool post is set up at 60º also; that is what I feed in by hand (in thousandths). My table feed is set to the thread pitch, and chuck/spindle speed is lowest I can go.

I don't know if anyone makes a Luger barrel thread die or tap. In any event, trying to thread a barrel with a die wouldn't get it concentric with the bore, as John commented.

I have pics of the threading process before & after, but I can't take pics while threading. I need both hands free to throw the appropriate levers to stop the feed and retract the cutting bit at the end of the cut.

"Thread fixer"...Like a thread file? Yes, I have a 20tpi thread file, like for taking dents out of a thread if you were to drop it or something. But if it's serious, like a Luger barrel I had that was soldered to take up gap, then I turn it in the lathe. And/or 'pick up the thread' and re-cut it.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Rich, I don't understand how you can be sure of the threading. This is where my stupidity comes out I know. Surely you don't thread these by hand with a lathe?

I do thread these on a lathe...

Here's the receiver end of the barrel being threaded, ~.704" x 20 tpi...

I've also re-tapered the 'fat' taper...

Next will be threading the muzzle end...I'm still deciding whether to make a threaded front sight base + band or saw off an old Luger front sight base/band and thread it...

[sheepherder]

I thinned the big end of the taper down about .085" off the OD; left the front sight band end alone. It looks a bit better. Here's a comparison of before & after -

[sheepherder]

A member pointed out to me that a 4" Luger front sight band + base would be too short for a 6" 'Navy' style barrel...So I guess I'll be making one from scratch...

I looked at Ed Tinker's albums, and Ed has a Navy pictured -



Unfortunately, Ed sold it. I can try to extrapolate the front sight base height from the pic...But if anyone has a Navy (or a repro) they could measure, it would make it easier!

Thank You!

In the meantime, I'm working on the front sight base/band blank...