S/42 1940 dated with X marking

photo-war · 07-29-2014, 06:35 AM

Dear forum members!

Please take a look at this S42 ...

This one has all parts with numbers matched except the togge- there is double 00 wit X over and the same X marking under take down lever.

Any thoughts on what X is this? A sort of a Russian Capture may be?

Thanks in advance,
Best regards,

Alexander

alanint · 07-29-2014, 07:06 AM

Russian Capture "x"s are usually around the serial numbers. Is there anything just above the "x" as part of the same stamp? It looks like there may be a little downward pointing arrow or something similar?

It does have that "arsenal rebuild" look to it, but it may one of those pistols they hardly messed with after capture.

photo-war · 07-29-2014, 09:00 AM

This is not an arrow but just similar looking scratch above the X.

John Sabato · 07-29-2014, 11:04 AM

I would toss my hat in the Russian Capture ring... it also looks a little like it might have been dip-blued without any surface prep... which they were known to do...

ken d · 07-29-2014, 05:24 PM

Replaced toggle? 1940 should be 42 not S/42.

Ken D

Sergio Natali · 07-30-2014, 10:14 AM

For sure that doesn't look like the so called "Russian Capture X mark" to me!

John Sabato · 07-30-2014, 12:55 PM

Sergio I agree that the "X" mark is:

in an unusual place,
may be horizontal instead of vertical,
but does look like a sloppy Russian "X" to me... especially with that mottled hazy blue finish...

It may have been one of the early Russian capture pistols that was processed for storage before they "standardized" how they would deal with them...

Just my $0.02

alanint · 07-30-2014, 01:11 PM

Agreed. The condition and material of the grips would tend to support that. Captured pistols in excellent shape would have been the first to be processed and stored.

Edward Tinker · 07-30-2014, 05:13 PM

I have seen a number of russian capture that people told me came in with the batches and they had NO 'X" / I personally do not think that every one was marked - if so, what is the reason? If at a certain arsenal, than that would tell me that many arsenals - there should be different markings? If they were checking a percentage, then that is possible?

But I think, just like export and import stampings, some slip through

photo-war · 07-31-2014, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

But I think, just like export and import stampings, some slip through

Not every RC gun has X - there are many guns with no such markings. But X could be observed on almost every type of firearms that came through the former Soviets arsenals (mostly based in Ukraine: Shepetovka, Balakleya etc.) - MG34/42, MP44, MP38/40 etc.

To me this X could stand for "removed from inventory" - when the gun was sold/imported and its number was removed from arsenal's lists of gun that were on storage there.

John Sabato · 07-31-2014, 10:42 AM

Photo-War. Please check your Private Messages using the link at the top right corner of this page.

mrerick · 07-31-2014, 11:55 AM

I was once told that the "X" marking was done because soldiers received a bounty payment for turning in captured weapons. The "X" prevented them from being returned to circulation, and then being turned in again for a subsequent bounty payment.

Marc

07-29-2014, 06:35 AM	#1
photo-war User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 35 Thanks: 24 Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts	S/42 1940 dated with X marking Dear forum members! Please take a look at this S42 ... This one has all parts with numbers matched except the togge- there is double 00 wit X over and the same X marking under take down lever. Any thoughts on what X is this? A sort of a Russian Capture may be? Thanks in advance, Best regards, Alexander Attached Thumbnails

07-29-2014, 11:04 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I would toss my hat in the Russian Capture ring... it also looks a little like it might have been dip-blued without any surface prep... which they were known to do... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-30-2014, 10:14 AM	#6
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	For sure that doesn't look like the so called "Russian Capture X mark" to me! __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-30-2014, 12:55 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Sergio I agree that the "X" mark is: in an unusual place, may be horizontal instead of vertical, but does look like a sloppy Russian "X" to me... especially with that mottled hazy blue finish... It may have been one of the early Russian capture pistols that was processed for storage before they "standardized" how they would deal with them... Just my $0.02 __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-31-2014, 10:42 AM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Photo-War. Please check your Private Messages using the link at the top right corner of this page. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-29-2014, 07:06 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Russian Capture "x"s are usually around the serial numbers. Is there anything just above the "x" as part of the same stamp? It looks like there may be a little downward pointing arrow or something similar? It does have that "arsenal rebuild" look to it, but it may one of those pistols they hardly messed with after capture.

07-29-2014, 09:00 AM	#3
photo-war User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 35 Thanks: 24 Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts	This is not an arrow but just similar looking scratch above the X.

07-29-2014, 05:24 PM	#5
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Replaced toggle? 1940 should be 42 not S/42. Ken D

07-30-2014, 01:11 PM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Agreed. The condition and material of the grips would tend to support that. Captured pistols in excellent shape would have been the first to be processed and stored.

07-30-2014, 05:13 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	I have seen a number of russian capture that people told me came in with the batches and they had NO 'X" / I personally do not think that every one was marked - if so, what is the reason? If at a certain arsenal, than that would tell me that many arsenals - there should be different markings? If they were checking a percentage, then that is possible? But I think, just like export and import stampings, some slip through

07-31-2014, 11:55 AM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	I was once told that the "X" marking was done because soldiers received a bounty payment for turning in captured weapons. The "X" prevented them from being returned to circulation, and then being turned in again for a subsequent bounty payment. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.