Commercial Luger - no date, no proof marks?

Beaver76 · 05-04-2014, 08:31 PM

Hi everyone.. picked up this Luger today. Kind of lost on what its details are.
All numbers except the magazine match. Seems to be in good shape, but has no Year and no Proof marks.
Looks like a 9mm based on the bore size.
Serial is 6074.
Ideas of what it is? And what it's worth?

Thanks!

Edward Tinker · 05-04-2014, 08:38 PM

Front of frame is needed to show serial and suffix

Also, its been reblued - the strawed areas are blued

import markings? Any stamp on left and right (proof marks)

But as its reblued, its worth around $600-$800

Ed

Beaver76 · 05-04-2014, 08:43 PM

here you go

Beaver76 · 05-04-2014, 08:58 PM

Also, no proof marks or stampings on left or right side...
Thanks Ed (and everyone else!)
Phillip

hayhugh · 05-04-2014, 09:10 PM

On your second photo you can just make out the "DWM" so you know who made it.

Beaver76 · 05-04-2014, 09:15 PM

Actually, the "DWM" engraving is very sharp, it just is very hard to see in the picture. But the DWM is actually the sharpest and clearest of all the markings on the gun...
Anyone have an idea why there would be no proof marks, etc? Or no year?

Edward Tinker · 05-04-2014, 09:47 PM

it is all dark, thus likely reblued - I would bet if you looked close enough you could find a crown N on it on the left - if not than it was likely sanded off when refinshed

Beaver76 · 05-04-2014, 09:50 PM

Hi Ed, thanks for the info. Any idea on approximate year of manufacture, based on the serial number? Also, I paid less than what your estimates for value are, so I am happy (I was looking for a shooter, so I had no illusions that it was some sort of amazing collectible grade gun).
Thanks again! Can't wait to shoot it

alanint · 05-05-2014, 06:38 AM

You have an "Alphabet Commercial" DWM made sometime in the 1920s. It has been fairly heavily buffed and reblued. It looks like most of the proofs have been obliterated by the buffing process. The gun is worth what Ed suggested.

Beaver76 · 05-06-2014, 01:30 AM

Thanks Alanint! I'm in Florida as well.

Sergio Natali · 05-06-2014, 10:54 AM

Reblued over rust pitting.
Here in Italy they would ask even more than that for a similar gun, still, it' s alright as long as there are people ready to pay so much.

MFC · 05-07-2014, 11:23 PM

Looks like a 's' suffix to me, which would be a 29DWM, according to Still's Weimar Lugers. There were a few commercials in 30 cal. made then, but most of these made in 1929, were 9mm and made for the military. In any case, it's not a typical Alphabet Commercial.

Beaver76 · 05-09-2014, 10:23 AM

Hi Mike, how can you tell it is an "S"? And, how can one tell it may have been built in 1929? Thanks!

John Sabato · 05-09-2014, 01:21 PM

the small script character underneath the serial number on the frame is an "S" in lower case. The lower case "s" is part of the gun's serial number (i.e., the serial number of this Luger is "6074s"

It is very important to include this letter suffix on any documentation about this gun, as over the years there were many Lugers manufactured with the serial number "6074" --- the suffix letter is how these guns are distinguished from each other. Military guns of each manufacturing run started with 0001 and ended with 9999, the next run would be 0001a and ended with 9999a, etc.

Beaver76 · 05-09-2014, 01:24 PM

Thanks very much John! And just to clarify... would this mean that the gun was manufactured in 1929? If so, this would be an amazing stroke of luck (for me), as I try to collect guns made in 1929, the year my father was born...

05-04-2014, 08:31 PM	#1
Beaver76 User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Commercial Luger - no date, no proof marks? Hi everyone.. picked up this Luger today. Kind of lost on what its details are. All numbers except the magazine match. Seems to be in good shape, but has no Year and no Proof marks. Looks like a 9mm based on the bore size. Serial is 6074. Ideas of what it is? And what it's worth? Thanks! Attached Thumbnails

05-04-2014, 08:38 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Front of frame is needed to show serial and suffix Also, its been reblued - the strawed areas are blued import markings? Any stamp on left and right (proof marks) But as its reblued, its worth around $600-$800 Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-04-2014, 08:43 PM	#3
Beaver76 User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	here you go Attached Thumbnails

05-06-2014, 10:54 AM	#11
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Reblued over rust pitting. Here in Italy they would ask even more than that for a similar gun, still, it' s alright as long as there are people ready to pay so much. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-07-2014, 11:23 PM	#12
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Looks like a 's' suffix to me, which would be a 29DWM, according to Still's Weimar Lugers. There were a few commercials in 30 cal. made then, but most of these made in 1929, were 9mm and made for the military. In any case, it's not a typical Alphabet Commercial. __________________ Mike C.

05-04-2014, 08:58 PM	#4
Beaver76 User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Also, no proof marks or stampings on left or right side... Thanks Ed (and everyone else!) Phillip

05-04-2014, 09:10 PM	#5
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 885 Thanks: 851 Thanked 508 Times in 271 Posts	On your second photo you can just make out the "DWM" so you know who made it.

05-04-2014, 09:15 PM	#6
Beaver76 User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Actually, the "DWM" engraving is very sharp, it just is very hard to see in the picture. But the DWM is actually the sharpest and clearest of all the markings on the gun... Anyone have an idea why there would be no proof marks, etc? Or no year?

05-04-2014, 09:47 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	it is all dark, thus likely reblued - I would bet if you looked close enough you could find a crown N on it on the left - if not than it was likely sanded off when refinshed

05-04-2014, 09:50 PM	#8
Beaver76 User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Hi Ed, thanks for the info. Any idea on approximate year of manufacture, based on the serial number? Also, I paid less than what your estimates for value are, so I am happy (I was looking for a shooter, so I had no illusions that it was some sort of amazing collectible grade gun). Thanks again! Can't wait to shoot it

05-05-2014, 06:38 AM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	You have an "Alphabet Commercial" DWM made sometime in the 1920s. It has been fairly heavily buffed and reblued. It looks like most of the proofs have been obliterated by the buffing process. The gun is worth what Ed suggested.

05-06-2014, 01:30 AM	#10
Beaver76 User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks Alanint! I'm in Florida as well.

05-09-2014, 10:23 AM	#13
Beaver76 User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Hi Mike, how can you tell it is an "S"? And, how can one tell it may have been built in 1929? Thanks!

05-09-2014, 01:21 PM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	the small script character underneath the serial number on the frame is an "S" in lower case. The lower case "s" is part of the gun's serial number (i.e., the serial number of this Luger is "6074s" It is very important to include this letter suffix on any documentation about this gun, as over the years there were many Lugers manufactured with the serial number "6074" --- the suffix letter is how these guns are distinguished from each other. Military guns of each manufacturing run started with 0001 and ended with 9999, the next run would be 0001a and ended with 9999a, etc. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-09-2014, 01:24 PM	#15
Beaver76 User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks very much John! And just to clarify... would this mean that the gun was manufactured in 1929? If so, this would be an amazing stroke of luck (for me), as I try to collect guns made in 1929, the year my father was born...