Need Help Identifying Another One

[thornbirdguy]

The last one was identified in no time at all. I hope y'all can do it again. I've seen similar ones on Gunbroker, but none of them have a decent description. All the numbers I've seen have been correct. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide(and yes, I'll thank you again later). Sorry about the huge pics.

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[jussi16]

Hello.

The magazine is not original. Looks like an east german. I can not see any VOPO markings on the gun.

jussi

[mrerick]

Hi Randy,

What do you want to know about this one? Is this yours, or are you looking at buying it?

It's a Mauser made Luger looks like sn 7031k? Looks like the barrel has been off of it for some reason. Million dollar chip up on the left rear top grip.

[DavidJayUden]

Good point on the witness markings...
Looks like she's been around the patch a few times, but if all numbers match except mag, maybe $1250 as an entry level collectable that you can shoot. An easy $1000 as a shooter.
dju

[Norme]

I don't believe the barrel has been removed and then reinstalled, the very notion is absurd. Extensive firing can cause a barrel to tighten up slightly, which is why the register mark has shifted.
Regards, Norm

[thornbirdguy]

I work for a pawn shop. This Luger was bought by one of the other stores(there are 4). Lugers, very rarely, come in to the stores. The last one we had, I showed to you nice folks, and you told me far more about it than I could (possibly) find out on my own. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable when it comes to firearms, but I had no clue about Lugers. Everything I've learned about Lugers has been from this site/forum. That being said...When we got another one, I came back. I do realize that this site/forum is mostly collectors and/or owners, and I truly am not trying to disturb anyone. But, when you find somewhere that ,collectively, knows more about a particular firearm than you thought possible(and are quite friendly too)...you come back. I'm the one that the stores usually go to when they have a firearm question, and I am here because I can't answer some of them. This Luger, like the other one, will be sold in an online auction.
I thank you all for the information that you have provided and any that may come in the future.
-Randy

[DavidJayUden]

Just for giggles, what did you previously value the gun at and did you learn anything earth-shattering here?
Also, please send us a link to the auction. That gun will make someone a good entry level luger.
And Norme, I find it no more absurd that the barrel has been removed or somehow altered, than I find it that it tightened itself up. (Insert smiley face here...)
Just my $.02.
dju

[thornbirdguy]

Didn't have a price yet. No shattered earth yet, but the day is still young.

[Norme]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

And Norme, I find it no more absurd that the barrel has been removed or somehow altered, than I find it that it tightened itself up. (Insert smiley face here...)
Just my $.02.
dju

Hi David, What is absurd is the idea that a German armorer would go to the trouble of unscrewing a Luger barrel and then replacing it with the SAME barrel!
The passage of a bullet through a rifled barrel imparts a rotational torque, and the right hand twist of a Luger's rifling makes the barrel self tightening. This is standard engineering practice with parts that are subjected to torque, such as bicycle pedals, those on the left side having a left hand thread, those on the right a conventional right hand thread.
Regards, Norm

[DavidJayUden]

Norm:
I'll have to watch these guns more closely to see it this is a common occurance, AND does it always tighten, vs. loosen. It may well happen as you have said, it's just a new one to me.
I would have hypothesized that some numb-skull tried to adjust the POI by wrenching on the muzzle.
dju

[ithacaartist]

David J,

It wouldn't surprise me that the bore was engineered to make the barrel resist loosening up--not so sold on it's actually tightening, except if it were loose to begin with. I worked for almost a decade fabricating audio-kinteic and other sculptures designed by George Rhoads. I was not involved with its creation, but his producer put a wind sculpture together for him, a rotational device that played chimes as it spun in the wind. It was mounted to the top of the test pole by a standard pipe connector. A colleague told me that he and the producer were looking out a window at the sculpture when the last thread holding the counter-clockwise-spinning contraption let loose and the entire structure crashed to the ground! Everyone marveled that they had actually witnessed its demise, but otherwise--needless to say--all spinning devices engineered from then on would spin clock-wise. So, it can matter. Good engineering helps prevent lawsuits! (Right, Eric?)

[Dwight Gruber]

Witness marks tell you much less than is commonly believed. If you do a forum search you will find extensive posts on the subject.

With Mauser P08s, the witness mark was not applied in one stroke. The flange diameter of Mauser barrels is slightly greater than the diameter of the receiver, so it is impractical to strike the mark hard enough to impress both the barrel and receiver. The mark was centered on the receiver, and once the final barrel was in place the flange was stamped to match. Obviously the accuracy of the correspondence depended on the skill and care of the person applying the mark.

--Dwight

[thornbirdguy]

This is a perfect example of learning new things.

[Nomadr]

This is a very interesting thread as I have a BYF41 with the receiver marked but not the barrel.
I always thought it had a barrel replaced and re-stamped with the serial number.

Maybe not the case and the barrel was never struck to start with?

Bob

[DavidJayUden]

N:
Is the finish and wear consistant fore and aft, and do the numbers appear to be correct font and application? Anything else about the gun to suggest something afoul other than the front half of the witness mark? Proof markings on the barrel?
dju

[Nomadr]

David,
I will start a new thread with good photos. I don't want to hijack this thread.

Bob