7.65/380 interchnable?

hayhugh · 01-29-2014, 06:36 PM

Just purchased a 1923 commercial 7.65 DWM luger. Great looking gun with all matching and good rifling. Tried to insert a bottleneck 7.63 Mauser into barrel and bullet would not go in fare enough, sticking out about a good 1/8 inch. looked around on the internet and saw an article that states a.380 and 7.65 are the same...Tried to slip a 380 into the barrel and it sticks out too far also. Just what ammo am I suppose to be using in this gun?

318is_Parabellum · 01-29-2014, 06:48 PM

Hayhugh, your pistol is chambered for the .30 Luger round (7.65x21mm). The .30 Mauser round is 7.63x25mm. The Germans knew the .380cal round as the 9mm Kurz (9mm Short -- 9x17mm).

The true experts will be able to tell you more about the similarities and differences between bullet weights and diameters for .30 Luger and .30 Mauser.

Just in case, never use the dimensionally similar Soviet 7.63x25Tokarev round in a 7.63mm "broomhandle". The Soviet round is loaded much hotter, and will likely damage a C-96.

Edward Tinker · 01-29-2014, 07:23 PM

yes, 7.65mm is usually called 30 Luger in the USA

32 acp, 380 acp are bullet wise, close, but not close case wise.

7.63mm for broomhandles is a totally different cartridge than 30 Luger

318is_Parabellum · 01-29-2014, 07:49 PM

Ed,
I'm pretty sure that 7.65mm is the equivalent to our .32 ACP round.

IIRC, 7.65mm (the 7.65x17mm round) was the "substitute standard" round used by the German military and police during WW2.

The Walther PP, Sauer 38H, Hungary's model 37 (as used by the Luftwaffe), and the Czech Vz. 27 were all chambered in 7.65mm.

Respectfully,
Jason

Edward Tinker · 01-29-2014, 07:56 PM

yes --- but the average person will call the 30 Luger the 7.65mm Luger

Quote:

The 7.65×21mm Parabellum (designated as the 7,65 Parabellum by the C.I.P.[2] and also known as .30 Luger and 7.65mm Luger) is a pistol cartridge that was introduced in 1898 by German arms manufacturer Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM) for their new Pistol Parabellum. The primary designers were firearms designers Georg Luger and Hugo Borchardt, who developed the round from the earlier 7.65×25mm Borchardt while working at DWM.

So, you are correct, but calling it the technical name IMO throws people off - was not trying to correct you, I just don't know anyone that calls the 30 luger, the 7.65x21mm

kubel · 01-29-2014, 07:59 PM

Quote:

I'm pretty sure that 7.65mm is the equivalent to our .32 ACP round.

Agreed. I've fired 32 ACP through my Walther PP and PPK without issues. They're both 7.65mm.

Edward Tinker · 01-29-2014, 08:00 PM

I give up

318is_Parabellum · 01-29-2014, 08:04 PM

Indeed,
When I began collecting WW2 German handguns, this issue confused me somewhat. Now, when I hear "7.65mm", I think of the 7.65x17mm/.32 ACP. Yes, I've always heard ".30 Luger" or "7.65mm Parabellum". Thank you!

As always, I defer to the true experts. I've just enough knowledge to be dangerous, I suppose. I absolutely meant no disrespect!!

kubel · 01-29-2014, 08:15 PM

Quote:

I give up

Haha....I think we're all really on the same sheet here.

Edward Tinker · 01-29-2014, 08:19 PM

Not mad, just felt that I was / Whose on first (baseball Abbot and Costello)

hayhugh · 01-29-2014, 08:36 PM

Thank you Gentleman, Now I don't feel so dumb, seeing that even the forum experts were in disagreement. I have ordered a box of 30 Luger ammo. Its on backorder and will not know till probably next year if it fits. Again thanks........

sheepherder · 01-29-2014, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick W.

Perhaps the SAAMI site will help.

http://www.saami.org/

then download the pdf on pistol chamber/cartridge dimensions

The only thing that downloads is a Table Of Contents...You got a direct link to the dimensions PDF???

sheepherder · 01-29-2014, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick W.

Once the www.SAAMI.org, downloads. On the left you will see, info and specs, click on that.

Then look for the blue cartridge and chamber drawings, click on that. Pistol, rifle etc listings will show up. Then click on pistol/revolver.

The drawings themselves are in PDF format, so a direct link might be a bit iffy.

OK, it doesn't work for me. I get an error message when I try to click on a cartridge in the TOC.

I was hoping the entire list would download. There's not that many. Only 47 on the pistol list.

mrerick · 01-29-2014, 09:29 PM

The detailed Centerfire Pistol cartridge specifications PDF with drawings is at:

http://saami.org/specifications_and_...wnload/205.pdf

pitsword · 02-01-2014, 05:22 PM

Who is this SAAMI dude? Sounds Finnish to me and well traveled, he is all over da place. Jus sayin.

01-29-2014, 06:36 PM	#1
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 885 Thanks: 851 Thanked 508 Times in 271 Posts	7.65/380 interchnable? Just purchased a 1923 commercial 7.65 DWM luger. Great looking gun with all matching and good rifling. Tried to insert a bottleneck 7.63 Mauser into barrel and bullet would not go in fare enough, sticking out about a good 1/8 inch. looked around on the internet and saw an article that states a.380 and 7.65 are the same...Tried to slip a 380 into the barrel and it sticks out too far also. Just what ammo am I suppose to be using in this gun?

01-29-2014, 07:23 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	yes, 7.65mm is usually called 30 Luger in the USA 32 acp, 380 acp are bullet wise, close, but not close case wise. 7.63mm for broomhandles is a totally different cartridge than 30 Luger __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-29-2014, 08:04 PM	#8
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	Indeed, When I began collecting WW2 German handguns, this issue confused me somewhat. Now, when I hear "7.65mm", I think of the 7.65x17mm/.32 ACP. Yes, I've always heard ".30 Luger" or "7.65mm Parabellum". Thank you! As always, I defer to the true experts. I've just enough knowledge to be dangerous, I suppose. I absolutely meant no disrespect!! Last edited by 318is_Parabellum; 01-29-2014 at 08:52 PM. Reason: clarity! Don't wanna piss anyone off!!!

01-29-2014, 09:29 PM	#14
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The detailed Centerfire Pistol cartridge specifications PDF with drawings is at: http://saami.org/specifications_and_...wnload/205.pdf __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-29-2014, 06:48 PM	#2
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	Hayhugh, your pistol is chambered for the .30 Luger round (7.65x21mm). The .30 Mauser round is 7.63x25mm. The Germans knew the .380cal round as the 9mm Kurz (9mm Short -- 9x17mm). The true experts will be able to tell you more about the similarities and differences between bullet weights and diameters for .30 Luger and .30 Mauser. Just in case, never use the dimensionally similar Soviet 7.63x25Tokarev round in a 7.63mm "broomhandle". The Soviet round is loaded much hotter, and will likely damage a C-96.

01-29-2014, 07:49 PM	#4
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	Ed, I'm pretty sure that 7.65mm is the equivalent to our .32 ACP round. IIRC, 7.65mm (the 7.65x17mm round) was the "substitute standard" round used by the German military and police during WW2. The Walther PP, Sauer 38H, Hungary's model 37 (as used by the Luftwaffe), and the Czech Vz. 27 were all chambered in 7.65mm. Respectfully, Jason

01-29-2014, 08:00 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	I give up

01-29-2014, 08:19 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Not mad, just felt that I was / Whose on first (baseball Abbot and Costello)

01-29-2014, 08:36 PM	#11
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 885 Thanks: 851 Thanked 508 Times in 271 Posts	Thank you Gentleman, Now I don't feel so dumb, seeing that even the forum experts were in disagreement. I have ordered a box of 30 Luger ammo. Its on backorder and will not know till probably next year if it fits. Again thanks........

02-01-2014, 05:22 PM	#15
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 456 Thanks: 3,914 Thanked 101 Times in 81 Posts	Who is this SAAMI dude? Sounds Finnish to me and well traveled, he is all over da place. Jus sayin.