Is my pistol a so called "Black Widow"?

F.U.N.G.U.S. · 06-21-2013, 04:11 AM

I recently became the very lucky recipient of a great mans P-08 collection. It seemed like he had one of almost every variant. An artillery 7.65, an American Eagle 7.65, double dated 1920/1915(w/2 matching mags and matching holster) a 1940 with the reich acceptance mark, even a stoeger .22. They all have subtle differences but this last one stands out. Darker finish, darker grips, and a piece on top just behind where the barrel meets the upper the piece with the round chambered indicator, that has an amber tint. It's an s/42 dated 1936. Is this a black widow?

alanint · 06-21-2013, 04:53 AM

Not likely. "Black Widows" are dated 41-42 and the grips are a black phenolic resin.

I sure would like to see that Artillery in 7.65.

F.U.N.G.U.S. · 06-21-2013, 07:08 AM

Alanint, that piece falls into the crying shame category. Of the 8 P-08's only three were in good condition. The artillery piece was so badly rusted it is beyond saving. The American eagle and the other 7.65 are at least in shooter condition. I'm not sure how to upload photos using my iPhone. I would love to show off what I call hitting the lottery. I gave my dad the 1940. For the first time in my life I renedered him speechless

alanint · 06-21-2013, 08:13 AM

Tommy, I mention that I would like to see the Artillery in 7.65 since no Artilleries were produced in that caliber.

Are you sure it is not simply a long barreled commercial pistol?

There is very little that is "beyond saving" for some of the very talented Luger craftsmen who frequent this site.

Borrow a camera if you have to. You may be surprised at what folks here can tell you about your recent acquisitions.

Zorba · 06-21-2013, 04:00 PM

I saw a '36 for sale "somewhere" recently that had apparent black grips - looked like "Black Widow" grips to my inexperienced eye. I figured it was a simple case of retrofit.

Edward Tinker · 06-21-2013, 04:24 PM

I expect most things 'out of place' to be done post war. However, It is also possible grips were replacements during war. An armorer or repair facility would use whatever grips, magazine bottoms, other parts as needed; so you can find odd mixtures at times and they are perfectly legit.

But unless something was brought back by the GI (and you know how many folks forget they added a police holster because it was in excellent shape, or whatever) that is the only way to know it came that way.

06-21-2013, 04:11 AM	#1
F.U.N.G.U.S. New User Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is my pistol a so called "Black Widow"? I recently became the very lucky recipient of a great mans P-08 collection. It seemed like he had one of almost every variant. An artillery 7.65, an American Eagle 7.65, double dated 1920/1915(w/2 matching mags and matching holster) a 1940 with the reich acceptance mark, even a stoeger .22. They all have subtle differences but this last one stands out. Darker finish, darker grips, and a piece on top just behind where the barrel meets the upper the piece with the round chambered indicator, that has an amber tint. It's an s/42 dated 1936. Is this a black widow?

06-21-2013, 04:24 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	I expect most things 'out of place' to be done post war. However, It is also possible grips were replacements during war. An armorer or repair facility would use whatever grips, magazine bottoms, other parts as needed; so you can find odd mixtures at times and they are perfectly legit. But unless something was brought back by the GI (and you know how many folks forget they added a police holster because it was in excellent shape, or whatever) that is the only way to know it came that way. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-21-2013, 04:53 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Not likely. "Black Widows" are dated 41-42 and the grips are a black phenolic resin. I sure would like to see that Artillery in 7.65.

06-21-2013, 07:08 AM	#3
F.U.N.G.U.S. New User Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alanint, that piece falls into the crying shame category. Of the 8 P-08's only three were in good condition. The artillery piece was so badly rusted it is beyond saving. The American eagle and the other 7.65 are at least in shooter condition. I'm not sure how to upload photos using my iPhone. I would love to show off what I call hitting the lottery. I gave my dad the 1940. For the first time in my life I renedered him speechless

06-21-2013, 08:13 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Tommy, I mention that I would like to see the Artillery in 7.65 since no Artilleries were produced in that caliber. Are you sure it is not simply a long barreled commercial pistol? There is very little that is "beyond saving" for some of the very talented Luger craftsmen who frequent this site. Borrow a camera if you have to. You may be surprised at what folks here can tell you about your recent acquisitions.

06-21-2013, 04:00 PM	#5
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 951 Thanks: 776 Thanked 526 Times in 289 Posts	I saw a '36 for sale "somewhere" recently that had apparent black grips - looked like "Black Widow" grips to my inexperienced eye. I figured it was a simple case of retrofit.