Blind Pig and the Acorn

Marvin · 03-09-2002, 07:21 AM

Hello All,

As the saying goes, "even a blind pig will find an acorn once in a while". While out of town yesterday, I went to a local gunshop to see what they had for sale. Nothing in line of intrest until a fellow came in and we started talking. He said he had a Luger and might sell it, so we went to his car to take a look. It was a 1920 Commercial (as Jan Still calls them Alphabet Lugers), in the "k" suffix range whihc would put it in early 1922 manufacture. The guy said it had belonged to his great-grandfather and he was not interested in Luger and may sell it. The first thing I did was take it apart and the inside was MINT, I don't know if it had ever been fired or not (.30 Luger)! the bore, grips and inside is perfect, with old grease still evident. The bluing is 95-97% and a very pretty color, but the problem is that the pistol had been kept in a holster all these years and there was some light "freckling" on the right frame rail, the muzzle, and a few spots on the barrel. This is a bummer for such a nice pistol. I asked the guy about the holster and he said it was not in good condition and he threw it away several years ago. After a little negotiating, I bought the pistol for $450. I did not think this was too bad for non-import, and it being a common commercial pistol. If they had not kept the pistol in the holster so long, it would have been a deal at $800, but the "freckling" is there. The magazine is not original to the pistol and the guy said there was no magazine with the pistol when it was given to him as the original owner did not know where he had stored it, so there is an old period military magazine with it which may or may not work.

I thin I did OK on the price since it is in such great mechanical condition and the appearance is not bad until you look close at the metal. Just a shame they did not know how to store a pistol. I can't wait to get it to the range and give it a try with the Fiocci ammo. Do you thin I did OK on the price since the commercials are the lowest price around for a LUger?

Marvin

Thor · 03-09-2002, 09:33 AM

I think you did very well, pity about the freckling

Kyrie · 03-09-2002, 10:23 AM

Hi Marvin,

You done good

Best regards,

Kyrie

Moderator - Cruffler_Forum on Yahoo Groups

"The flame free C&R Forum."

03-09-2002, 10:30 AM

I think you did jsut fine. And unless the feckling is deep, I have seen light rust vanish as i gently rubbed it with gun oil.

Even then for a " (quote) shooter (unquote ) " the price is okay, besides the story is kind of cool. Some where there are magazines here and there that match our guns and they are in a night stand or box in the attic...

Ed

Ron Wood · 03-09-2002, 12:12 PM

A couple of tricks the old timers taught me. You can use #0000 steel wool and gun oil to knock down light freckling so it either disappears or becomes a lot less visible. This is done with a light touch on the steel wool and certainly with nothing coarser than 0000 grade. The fine steel wool will not hurt a rust blue finish unless you polish hard in one spot for a long time. For heavier deposits of rust that resist the steel wool, they used to use gun oil and the neck of a brass rifle cartridge to knock it down. I use a brass brazing rod flattend down and squared off. Use plenty of oil. This may leave a little brass coloring on the gun but that is then removed with the 0000 steel wool. A doggy Luger can be made to look pretty good with a little TLC, just don't get too heavy handed.

Orv Reichert · 03-09-2002, 12:41 PM

Marvin · 03-09-2002, 01:22 PM

Yea, I have cleaned the pistol last night and the "freckling" is deeper than can be removed with steel wool. It is almost slight pitting, but he pistol sure is nice. Ifelt the price was pretty good even with the imperfections. This may be a very good cndidate for Ted to remove the bad places and reblue the original finish. Thanks for the information guys and I will let you know how it shoots when I get to the range.

marvin

Orv Reichert · 03-09-2002, 02:11 PM

for pits too deep for the steel wool to remove the 'CRUD' [looks like thick black paint under magnification] take a brass [important...not steel] pin/nail and keeping it sharp, put a drop of oil into the pit and then move the sharp pin/nail around removing the crud!..then wipe it clean and examine again. Active Rust will turn the oil red!

I use a 10X Loupe

You must remove that stuff or it will just keep 'eating away' at the steel!

Orv Reichert

tracyp · 03-09-2002, 09:17 PM

Fiocchi ammo doesn't work very well, it's not powerful enough to push the toogle all the way back. I've been using surplus ammo from Finland. I bought if from Empirearms. It's also non-corrosive.

BILL · 03-09-2002, 09:45 PM

Hi Marvin, minus the freckling, there are dealers that would not blink an eye when they told you that a minty 1920s commercial should go for $900-$950. I think that since you paid half this much you got a real steal. Good luck at the range.

Thor · 03-09-2002, 10:27 PM

Tracy, ALL and I repeat ALL of my 30 Lugers PUKE big time on Fiocchi Ammo. I sometimes wonder if they have 9 mm main springs in them. The spring length was talked about quite a bit and Tom Heller said the 30 Luger spring was much shorter than the one in 9 mm Lugers. The 30 spring has around 15 coils and the 9 has around 19 which is an increase in of 27%. Food for thought! ~Thor~

Dwight Gruber · 03-09-2002, 11:27 PM

Thor, could you define "PUKE big time" a little bit please? Both my .30s have problems with feeding and extraction, and I have yet to determine if they are gun problems or ammo problems. The only ammo I can find around here is Fiocci (at twice the cost of garden-variety 9mm, ouch!), so I've never been able to test-and-compare.

I have noticed that toggle resistance feels greater on my 9mm than on my .30s, I sort of guessed that spring tension to account for the caliber difference was the reason.

--Dwight

Marvin · 03-10-2002, 07:05 AM

Orv,

Thanks for the information! I don't have a lot of experience with pitting, but the pin idea sounds great. There are a couple of pits on the right frame rail I will use this on. Otherwise, the steel wool will do fine.

As to the Fiocchi ammo, I will fire what I have and if I need more, i will get some brass and reload them. I think this is he best thing for the .30 Luger cartridge because of the different springs Thor mentioned. This new pistol seem to have very strong springs and no unexpected since the pistol is like new mechically. It is still a shame that that it wa kept in a holster. This goes to show that a holster is NOT the place to keep a firearm stored!!!!!

Marvin

03-10-2002, 10:39 AM

Congratulations!!! I talk guns constantly and over the years have seen more than one beauty eaten up because it was kept in the holster. Here in the south the humidity is also a factor. The treasure was put in a guncase, put in the closet, the case soaked up the humidity and really ruined the gun. This was all in the 50-60s when AC was not the norm.

Roadkill

03-10-2002, 12:50 PM

now ya'll got me reconsidering purchasing a repro hardshell I.M.A. holster. I keep my bolo broom in a repro Chinese-made over the shoulder harness/holster but the leather itself has been treated with both saddle soap and Cordovan Kiwi and the weapon itself rubbed down at least twice a month with 3in1 Oil so there's been no pitting....yet. Still, the bolo is a bit less "minty" than my P.08. Anybody use those cloth pistol zipper cases the gun stores sell ?

Lonnie Zimmerman · 03-10-2002, 12:56 PM

Do you suppose the 36 lb recoil spring from Wolff is for the 30?

Lonnie

Lonnie Zimmerman · 03-10-2002, 01:00 PM

And use Breakfree CLP. It is far superior, and makes the bluing look better too.

Lonnie

03-10-2002, 01:35 PM

The problem with the holsters is the salt. Recommend that if you are going to keep metal in a salty container is to use vaseline on knives and wrap pistols in a plastic bag

after coating well with whatever you use. I like breakfree/clp. Been using it on all mine for years. At first because I got it free from the supply sergeant and now because I like it. It constantly cleans. But then mine are more in the shooter than high dollar collectable arena.

R

Thor · 03-10-2002, 03:35 PM

Okay, sorry I didnt make my self clear, the gun hates it, but it is accurate. It is underpowered, wont lock the toggle back, and many times does not have enought OOOMPH(dont make me define that funny word please) to even eject the shell, so the breech tries (and sometimes does accomplish this) to rechamber the empty! Again it might be from too much main spring. Thor

03-10-2002, 05:28 PM

Where can I buy Breakfree CLP?

03-09-2002, 07:21 AM	#1
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Blind Pig and the Acorn Hello All, As the saying goes, "even a blind pig will find an acorn once in a while". While out of town yesterday, I went to a local gunshop to see what they had for sale. Nothing in line of intrest until a fellow came in and we started talking. He said he had a Luger and might sell it, so we went to his car to take a look. It was a 1920 Commercial (as Jan Still calls them Alphabet Lugers), in the "k" suffix range whihc would put it in early 1922 manufacture. The guy said it had belonged to his great-grandfather and he was not interested in Luger and may sell it. The first thing I did was take it apart and the inside was MINT, I don't know if it had ever been fired or not (.30 Luger)! the bore, grips and inside is perfect, with old grease still evident. The bluing is 95-97% and a very pretty color, but the problem is that the pistol had been kept in a holster all these years and there was some light "freckling" on the right frame rail, the muzzle, and a few spots on the barrel. This is a bummer for such a nice pistol. I asked the guy about the holster and he said it was not in good condition and he threw it away several years ago. After a little negotiating, I bought the pistol for $450. I did not think this was too bad for non-import, and it being a common commercial pistol. If they had not kept the pistol in the holster so long, it would have been a deal at $800, but the "freckling" is there. The magazine is not original to the pistol and the guy said there was no magazine with the pistol when it was given to him as the original owner did not know where he had stored it, so there is an old period military magazine with it which may or may not work. I thin I did OK on the price since it is in such great mechanical condition and the appearance is not bad until you look close at the metal. Just a shame they did not know how to store a pistol. I can't wait to get it to the range and give it a try with the Fiocci ammo. Do you thin I did OK on the price since the commercials are the lowest price around for a LUger? Marvin

03-09-2002, 09:33 AM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Blind Pig and the Acorn I think you did very well, pity about the freckling

03-09-2002, 10:23 AM	#3
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Blind Pig and the Acorn Hi Marvin, You done good Best regards, Kyrie Moderator - Cruffler_Forum on Yahoo Groups "The flame free C&R Forum."

03-09-2002, 10:30 AM	#4
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Blind Pig and the Acorn I think you did jsut fine. And unless the feckling is deep, I have seen light rust vanish as i gently rubbed it with gun oil. Even then for a " (quote) shooter (unquote ) " the price is okay, besides the story is kind of cool. Some where there are magazines here and there that match our guns and they are in a night stand or box in the attic... Ed

03-09-2002, 12:12 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Freckling A couple of tricks the old timers taught me. You can use #0000 steel wool and gun oil to knock down light freckling so it either disappears or becomes a lot less visible. This is done with a light touch on the steel wool and certainly with nothing coarser than 0000 grade. The fine steel wool will not hurt a rust blue finish unless you polish hard in one spot for a long time. For heavier deposits of rust that resist the steel wool, they used to use gun oil and the neck of a brass rifle cartridge to knock it down. I use a brass brazing rod flattend down and squared off. Use plenty of oil. This may leave a little brass coloring on the gun but that is then removed with the 0000 steel wool. A doggy Luger can be made to look pretty good with a little TLC, just don't get too heavy handed.

03-09-2002, 12:41 PM	#6
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Works with cold dip, too.....Orv (EOM)

03-09-2002, 01:22 PM	#7
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Blind Pig and the Acorn Yea, I have cleaned the pistol last night and the "freckling" is deeper than can be removed with steel wool. It is almost slight pitting, but he pistol sure is nice. Ifelt the price was pretty good even with the imperfections. This may be a very good cndidate for Ted to remove the bad places and reblue the original finish. Thanks for the information guys and I will let you know how it shoots when I get to the range. marvin

03-09-2002, 02:11 PM	#8
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Deep Pits for pits too deep for the steel wool to remove the 'CRUD' [looks like thick black paint under magnification] take a brass [important...not steel] pin/nail and keeping it sharp, put a drop of oil into the pit and then move the sharp pin/nail around removing the crud!..then wipe it clean and examine again. Active Rust will turn the oil red! I use a 10X Loupe You must remove that stuff or it will just keep 'eating away' at the steel! Orv Reichert

03-09-2002, 09:17 PM	#9
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Fiocchi Ammo Fiocchi ammo doesn't work very well, it's not powerful enough to push the toogle all the way back. I've been using surplus ammo from Finland. I bought if from Empirearms. It's also non-corrosive.

03-09-2002, 09:45 PM	#10
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Blind Pig and the Acorn Hi Marvin, minus the freckling, there are dealers that would not blink an eye when they told you that a minty 1920s commercial should go for $900-$950. I think that since you paid half this much you got a real steal. Good luck at the range.

03-09-2002, 10:27 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Fiocchi Ammo Tracy, ALL and I repeat ALL of my 30 Lugers PUKE big time on Fiocchi Ammo. I sometimes wonder if they have 9 mm main springs in them. The spring length was talked about quite a bit and Tom Heller said the 30 Luger spring was much shorter than the one in 9 mm Lugers. The 30 spring has around 15 coils and the 9 has around 19 which is an increase in of 27%. Food for thought! ~Thor~

03-09-2002, 11:27 PM	#12
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Re: Fiocchi Ammo Thor, could you define "PUKE big time" a little bit please? Both my .30s have problems with feeding and extraction, and I have yet to determine if they are gun problems or ammo problems. The only ammo I can find around here is Fiocci (at twice the cost of garden-variety 9mm, ouch!), so I've never been able to test-and-compare. I have noticed that toggle resistance feels greater on my 9mm than on my .30s, I sort of guessed that spring tension to account for the caliber difference was the reason. --Dwight

03-10-2002, 07:05 AM	#13
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Deep Pits Orv, Thanks for the information! I don't have a lot of experience with pitting, but the pin idea sounds great. There are a couple of pits on the right frame rail I will use this on. Otherwise, the steel wool will do fine. As to the Fiocchi ammo, I will fire what I have and if I need more, i will get some brass and reload them. I think this is he best thing for the .30 Luger cartridge because of the different springs Thor mentioned. This new pistol seem to have very strong springs and no unexpected since the pistol is like new mechically. It is still a shame that that it wa kept in a holster. This goes to show that a holster is NOT the place to keep a firearm stored!!!!! Marvin

03-10-2002, 10:39 AM	#14
R. Grady/Roadkill Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Blind Pig and the Acorn Congratulations!!! I talk guns constantly and over the years have seen more than one beauty eaten up because it was kept in the holster. Here in the south the humidity is also a factor. The treasure was put in a guncase, put in the closet, the case soaked up the humidity and really ruined the gun. This was all in the 50-60s when AC was not the norm. Roadkill

03-10-2002, 12:50 PM	#15
gewehr guy Guest Posts: n/a	WOW ! Great thread ! but now ya'll got me reconsidering purchasing a repro hardshell I.M.A. holster. I keep my bolo broom in a repro Chinese-made over the shoulder harness/holster but the leather itself has been treated with both saddle soap and Cordovan Kiwi and the weapon itself rubbed down at least twice a month with 3in1 Oil so there's been no pitting....yet. Still, the bolo is a bit less "minty" than my P.08. Anybody use those cloth pistol zipper cases the gun stores sell ?

03-10-2002, 12:56 PM	#16
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Fiocchi Ammo Do you suppose the 36 lb recoil spring from Wolff is for the 30? Lonnie

03-10-2002, 01:00 PM	#17
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Get rid of the 3 in 1 oil And use Breakfree CLP. It is far superior, and makes the bluing look better too. Lonnie

03-10-2002, 01:35 PM	#18
R. Grady/Roadkill Guest Posts: n/a	Re: WOW ! Great thread ! but The problem with the holsters is the salt. Recommend that if you are going to keep metal in a salty container is to use vaseline on knives and wrap pistols in a plastic bag after coating well with whatever you use. I like breakfree/clp. Been using it on all mine for years. At first because I got it free from the supply sergeant and now because I like it. It constantly cleans. But then mine are more in the shooter than high dollar collectable arena. R

03-10-2002, 03:35 PM	#19
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Fiocchi Ammo Okay, sorry I didnt make my self clear, the gun hates it, but it is accurate. It is underpowered, wont lock the toggle back, and many times does not have enought OOOMPH(dont make me define that funny word please) to even eject the shell, so the breech tries (and sometimes does accomplish this) to rechamber the empty! Again it might be from too much main spring. Thor

03-10-2002, 05:28 PM	#20
Brandon Metcalf Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Get rid of the 3 in 1 oil Where can I buy Breakfree CLP?