Winchester White Box Want-a-be

[Neil Young]

Gentlemen:
I will not discuss the current political cliamate other than to say thay buying my favorite Luger shooting ammo has become a thing of the past. I do reload, but all of my ammo is hollowpoint and maybe a little too hot.

Can somebody give me a reload that will be similar to the Winchester white box 9MM load? Another option would be a load that you have used successfully in your Luger that will not punish these old pistols.

Any help will be much appreciated.

[Neil Young]

Come on Guys--I'm just asking for the load data, not the cartridges themselves. Thanks.

[JD]

I'll give you one of my loads that I use in my lugers. I use 7.4 grains of Blue Dot powder with a 115 grain full metal jacket bullet, loaded to an overall loaded length of 1.165" to 1.169" (The overall loaded length is one of the keys to proper luger functioning, Do Not Shorten!!!). This load gives a velocity of 1090 fps in my Sig 226, with a standard deviation of 6 fps and functions well in my lugers.....

[Neil Young]

Thanks JD. I appreciate the information.

[sheepherder]

Here's a table from the 1970 Lyman Reloading Handbook 45th Ed. I like the older books because they were loading for the early pistols, not the +P+ pistols of today...

[sheepherder]

This may also be of some help in comparison shopping...Winchester's own values for 115gr 9mm 'Target' White Box ammunition...

[Neil Young]

Thanks Postino. Between you and JD, I have enough information to make my own "White Box" ammo. Now I can continue to give my old G-date a workout.

[Edward Tinker]

Neil, there have been a couple of discussions over the years, so there is data from years before, right here

[Neil Young]

Thanks Ed. I'll check it out.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Neil Young

Come on Guys--I'm just asking for the load data, not the cartridges themselves. Thanks.

Hi:

Please search my name and find about four or so major threads on proper loads for the 4 inch barrel Lugers. These are not only highly functional loads , but one holers.

For me, with round nose bullets, 1.173 inches is the magic over all length that will make the pistol function. This, by the way, was the original length of the DWM ammo.

With medium slow powders, like Power Pistol and SR 4756, you will have good load density. Try to keep your finished rounds at or near 1,076 FPS (less than 1,100 fps) as, again, this was the speed of the late WWI "improved" DWM pistol ammo

Good shooting!!!

Sieger

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Sieger

For me, with round nose bullets, 1.173 inches is the magic over all length that will make the pistol function. This, by the way, was the original length of the DWM ammo.

Sieger -

1.169" is what I've always used; Speer recommended. Pretty close.

Do you happen to know if the 7.65 Luger round was the same length = 1.173"???

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by postino

Sieger -

1.169" is what I've always used; Speer recommended. Pretty close.

Do you happen to know if the 7.65 Luger round was the same length = 1.173"???

Hi:

The original DWM 7.65mm ammo, with round nose bullet, was loaded to 1.173 inches. The original DWM 9mm truncated cone ammo was loaded to 1.14 inches.

By American standards, this seems a bit long, but the Germans typically load out longer than we do.

Also, please search my name for a thread on how to determine proper OAL for the exact bullet you will be handloading in your Luger. This process takes away all of the guessing and assures proper function.

The modern 9mm ammo we see being sold commercially today is a far cry from the original "formula" designed to properly function a vintage Luger. Most of it is too hot and too short. Here are some specs. 9mm NATO ammo is loaded with 121 gr. bullet at 1,260 fps vs 9mm DWM Parabellum ammo loaded with a 123 gr bullet at 1,076 fps (a 17% overload).

Sieger

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by JD

I'll give you one of my loads that I use in my lugers. I use 7.4 grains of Blue Dot powder with a 115 grain full metal jacket bullet, loaded to an overall loaded length of 1.165" to 1.169" (The overall loaded length is one of the keys to proper luger functioning, Do Not Shorten!!!). This load gives a velocity of 1090 fps in my Sig 226, with a standard deviation of 6 fps and functions well in my lugers.....

Hi:

I've checked my personal loading records, regarding Blue Dot, and found that with my LP-08, 7.3 grs, under 124 gr Hornady FMJFPs, was my second most accurate load (out of an 8 inch barrel). Blue Dot was the second most accurate powder I've tried to date out of this long barreled pistol.

Out of my regular 4 inch barrel P-08s, Blue Dot has not proven to be among the top three most accurate powders I've used, those being Power Pistol, SR4756 and HS6.

Sieger

[dfm]

Random case
Random SP primer
5.0grs. WST
115/124gr. bullet
1.150"
1080fps from a 4" barrel

Although I've never fired this reload in a Luger it's been a fine performer in every other 9mm handgun it's been used in. Very accurate, very clean burning and very low impulse it's an excellent duplication of WWB.

[Schutzenbob]

Thanks are in order! Today I went out to my local range and shot my old 30 luger, and it worked like a charm. I have a friend in the local sheriff’s office who gave me an eight pound keg of WW231, so I’ve been slowly working up loads, trying to find the lightest load that reliably cycles my action. My best load so far is 4.5 grains of WW231 with a Sierra 85 grain jacketed bullet. But the final bit of information that put me over the top was the proper over all length of 1.173 inches. The recoil seems a bit lighter than Fiocchi factory ammo. I’ll buy some Blue Dot powder when I can find it, but for the moment I’m happy with 231. Now I need to test it for accuracy.

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by Schutzenbob

Thanks are in order! Today I went out to my local range and shot my old 30 luger, and it worked like a charm. I have a friend in the local sheriff’s office who gave me an eight pound keg of WW231, so I’ve been slowly working up loads, trying to find the lightest load that reliably cycles my action. My best load so far is 4.5 grains of WW231 with a Sierra 85 grain jacketed bullet. But the final bit of information that put me over the top was the proper over all length of 1.173 inches. The recoil seems a bit lighter than Fiocchi factory ammo. I’ll buy some Blue Dot powder when I can find it, but for the moment I’m happy with 231. Now I need to test it for accuracy.

I might mention that this thread is concerning loading the 9mm round for a Luger, and not the 7.65Para round. I load for the 7.65 Para round, but have never tried using Blue Dot powder, and have never found any loading data for it in that brass. Please do not confuse the information for 9mm and overload your 30 luger brass.

[Schutzenbob]

Thanks Rhuff,

I was thanking the forum members for posting the proper OAL for 7.65 Parabellum. Having the correct length for my reloads seems to have made a positive difference.

[rhuff]

I fully understand now.....I just didn't want any kabooms!!