Gotta ask a quick question.

[Terry Tiell]

Hey guys I'm at round #6 with this rust bluing and so far its just a dark gray no where near the bluish black I'm hoping for. I'm following the directions that Mark posted and is stickied to the letter and I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong.

I put the solution on and it rusts up real good, I let it rust for 6 hours using a timer and then boil it off for 30 min again using a timer and card it off with 0000 steel wool washed in 100% acetone.

My question is does the rust bluing actually turn it the blue black color or does this happen when the gun is oiled and allowed to sit for 24 hours?

I've never done this before so I'm a little nervous about messing it up.

[Terry Tiell]

Wierdest thing. The gun went gray, dark gray, dark gray, dark gray, darker gray, BLACK. So I having it soaking in oil now and figure what the hell at least its not gray. I just wish I could have gotten the kind of color I see some of you have, and I wonder why mine didn't come out that way? But I figure its my first try at rust bluing and there MUST be a learning curve I just haven't picked up on yet.

Lots of pics to come please stand by..... for a day or so.

[Edward Tinker]

I have always heard that bluing is a art, you get it or you don't. I have never had the fortitude to attempt it

[ithacaartist]

Might be because of the proportions of chemicals in the bluing solution. I gather from some other posts that tweeking the chemistry is important to get the bluish black we're after, rather than the black black from the stuff when it's applied straight out of the bottle.

[Terry Tiell]

I followed the directions on the sticky to the letter not sure what happened but its not that bad all things considered I guess.

[nukem556]

Terry, did you use distilled water for the boiling cycles?

[Terry Tiell]

Originally Posted by nukem556

Terry, did you use distilled water for the boiling cycles?

Absolutely. Fresh gloves every time, distilled water, 100% pure acetone, fresh cotton balls, brand new certified sale, brand new 500 gram calibrating weight etc etc etc...

Like I said not sure what went wrong but its not hateful looking thats for sure its just coal black. I may just leave it like it is for now and see if I like it after a month or if I just HAVE to re-do it. If it stays black I'm thinking of naming her Black Betty.

[Olle]

I just blued a Luger sideplate with Mark D's formula, and I got the same result as Terry. It blued quickly and easily, but ended up being the same "greasy black" as you get using Brownells formula straight out of the bottle.

One thing I noticed was that the modified formula was very thin. I usually heat the parts with a hairdryer and apply just enough formula to wet the surface. It will dry in a couple of seconds, and you will see a thin, dull coat of dried formula after the application. With this formula you could barely see that you had applied it, so maybe you need to use it in a "more aggressive" way, like applying several coats, using higher humidity etc? Mark's pictures of the rusting show a lot of red rust, but I didn't get any of that.

[Terry Tiell]

I didn't get that red rust either at first and figured it wasn't getting enough humidity too. Try this its easy enough, what I did was place all my parts in a pot and then put that pot in a cooler just big enough to hold it, added just enough water to wet the bottom of the inside of the cooler and then added 2 wash cloth's that I'd soak in VERY hot water and then put in the 2 corners of the cooler and cover it over. The closed cooler with the wash cloth's that were steaming made the gun rust up MORE then in Mark's pictures.



I washed mine back off last night to touch up a few little spots I missed and when I did it washed almost all the black off. So I'm trying it again. I don't mind that it takes forever to do I just want it to turn out good.

[nukem556]

That could be part of your problem....did you do your first couple of cycles in that very high humidity state and go for 6 hours at a time?? Part of the "blue" appearance of the finished metal is the chemical compsosition of the formula, and some is the simple refractivity of light on the surface finish. From what you've said, I'd suspect you have a overly matte finish at this point, and it's gonna look blacker than it would have is the metal still had a sheen to it. You should never take the first rust cycle over 2, 3 hours max, even if youre not seeing red or orange rust. This lays down a fine oxidized base that still shines, but will protect against over-etching on subsequent cycles.

[Terry Tiell]

I'll see how its looking here in a few minutes but man I wish I knew about this 2 or 3 hour thing in the first place!

[nukem556]

Rusting time is very dependent on humidity levels too.....you might get away with a 6 hour first rust in the Mojave desert, but anywhere else, its too long. It's 95 degrees and 70% humidity here in SC today....if I did a 6 hour first rust cycle on bare metal today, there would be actual fine pitting all over it .

[Terry Tiell]

*sigh* I don't know anymore. It seems like everyone has a different way to make there's look perfect but when I try to follow their directions I wind up with a gray mess.

I've tried that Blue Wonder stuff and all it did was turn the gun gray, rust bluing again gray I just do not understand what I'm doing wrong. I follow the directions, watch video's, ask tons of questions to the people who I see do awesome work and I get .... gray. I've been working on this since Monday afternoon and have ever gotten up in the middle of the night to boil and card it and still all I get is gray. I'm beginning to get a little frustrated at this point as you can well imagine and am thinking of just striping it down and spray painting the damn thing!

I just applied the 9th coat and if it doesn't work I don't know what I'm going to do. The color is even and all the parts match its just they're this damn gray color! I'm actually hoping it turns coal black again cause this time I'll leave it alone.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by nukem556

That could be part of your problem....did you do your first couple of cycles in that very high humidity state and go for 6 hours at a time?? Part of the "blue" appearance of the finished metal is the chemical compsosition of the formula, and some is the simple refractivity of light on the surface finish. From what you've said, I'd suspect you have a overly matte finish at this point, and it's gonna look blacker than it would have is the metal still had a sheen to it. You should never take the first rust cycle over 2, 3 hours max, even if youre not seeing red or orange rust. This lays down a fine oxidized base that still shines, but will protect against over-etching on subsequent cycles.

When I rust blue, I try and "ease on" the first two coats. I watch it develop, then catch it before there's any red rust. I did the sideplate the same way, but still got a black finish.

I actually believe it's all in the "micro texture" of the finish. If you blue a freshly machined part, you can get a beautiful blue, iridescent finish without even trying, and that makes me think that a lot of it is actually in the surface prep. Any thoughts on this?

[nukem556]

I think Olle is right on the mark....the surface finish has a lot to do with the final hue of the metal. And Terry, dont give up, it's a learning curve....frustrating yes, but worthwhile in the long run. If you are at 9 cycles now, its not going to get any better or worse. Better to start again from bare metal with a new approach.

Also, dont get tunnel vision and think anything thats doesnt scream BLUE isn't close or correct. Guns often photograph bluer than they actually are, and the original finishes were only subtleley shaded that way. I have an original rust blued 1917 Artillery Luger with lots of the original finish left....it only appears to have a blue tint if you lay it next to a modern, blacker hot blued gun.

If you have the stomach for trying from scratch again and want to chase down the ingredients, I suggest you use the search feature to look at some old posts by "chuckc" and read up... I used his formula slightly modified and after adding a small amount of sodium nitrate am very pleased with what I now have to work with...I am by no means an expert, but I became fascinated with this process and spent a LOT of time experimenting. Nobody is holding a gun to your head ( ha ha)... and I can tell you're really passionate about refinishing this gun the best you can....take a deep breath and a break, and read, read read.

[Terry Tiell]

I'm not giving up but it is frustrating thats for damn sure. And if it doesn't come out right this time I'm going to be striping it and re-doing it from scratch.

[Terry Tiell]

Just got done boiling and carding it and it came out a very dark high gloss grayish, blueish color if that makes sense. So I figured It's probly not gonna get any better so I oiled it up and now its sitting till tomorrow and I'll see how it looks when I wipe it down but I gotta say that when I put the oil on it it turned to a blackish, blueish color that I HOPE it will stay. Or at least stay close to the color it is now. Keep your fingers crossed for me guys!

[Hugh]

No reflection on Mark, but forget the homemade formulas and get a bottle of Brownell's CLASSIC RUST BLUE solution if you must rust blue. I have given up on rust bluing as it is too labor intensive and I'm too lazy! I use Brownells Oxpho Blue and get great results with much less effort! Also remember, the bluing job is only as good as the polishing job. The higher the polish on the metal, the harder it is for the bluing to "bite", but the better final finish you will have in the end!