help me.

freshy · 06-07-2012, 02:34 PM

Hello
I am Arjan from the Netherlands.
I have just got my first P08(hopefully many more to come).
I would like to know if anyone can help me with the year of construction of my P08.
The bad news is that my camera broke down so i can not add picuters.
I will try to discribe it as good as possible.
The maker is DWM.
Number 4413 no letters.
Wooden grips.
No matching magazine.
Other stamps are the same as proof list 2 on this site and then number 15,but not all 4 are there just the 1 and the last.

Anybody?

I hope i did not make to many mistakes with my english.

Dear regards

Arjan.

Don M · 06-07-2012, 03:12 PM

Arjan, welcome to the forum. It appears you have a wartime DWM. There should be a date stamped on the top of the chamber indicating the year of manufacture. If it is missing some of the acceptance stamps, it is probably a 1918 that didn't get fully inspected before the end of the war.

Does it have any markings on the front grip strap?

freshy · 06-07-2012, 03:38 PM

Don.

There are no more stamps to be found.
No date or proof marks what so ever.
Its refitted with a new barrel so there is no info to collect either.
Perhaps my camera will be repaired next week and i can get some pics overhere.

regards

Arjan.

padredan · 06-07-2012, 04:01 PM

Welcome Arjan, it will take pictures to correctly identify. congrats on your first luger.

rhuff · 06-08-2012, 02:31 PM

Welcome to the forum, and we look forward to seeing pictures of your new/first Luger.

freshy · 06-19-2012, 02:24 PM

some how i can not get the pics i made on this site

Vlim · 06-19-2012, 02:50 PM

They are probably too large. Resize them to a smaller format and then try again. There are some instructions on posting images and resizing them on the forum.

hansfischer007 · 06-19-2012, 04:16 PM

Thanks Don for your note.....

"If it is missing some of the acceptance stamps, it is probably a 1918 that didn't get fully inspected before the end of the war."

....that was what my whole discussion was about on the 1918 DWM that came in yesterday.....since then I have spoken to one of the Major Luger Dealers ...and he informed me that approximately 1 out of every 20 or so 1918 DWMs that he has sold over the years did NOT have proof marks......so my mind is resting easy........anyway...Im thoroughly entranced by the heavy wear on the grips.......you can see where the previous owner rested his trigger finger.....picking it up is like putting on a glove......really amazing....Ive never seen a Luger like this.......Im Happy with it...

Edward Tinker · 06-19-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansfischer007

...and he informed me that approximately 1 out of every 20 or so 1918 DWMs that he has sold over the years did NOT have proof marks.........

NEVER, EVER HEARD OF THIS

Does it say that in Central Powers or Imperial Lugers?

Dwight Gruber · 06-19-2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansfischer007

Thanks Don for your note.....

"If it is missing some of the acceptance stamps, it is probably a 1918 that didn't get fully inspected before the end of the war."

....that was what my whole discussion was about on the 1918 DWM that came in yesterday.....since then I have spoken to one of the Major Luger Dealers ...and he informed me that approximately 1 out of every 20 or so 1918 DWMs that he has sold over the years did NOT have proof marks......so my mind is resting easy........anyway...Im thoroughly entranced by the heavy wear on the grips.......you can see where the previous owner rested his trigger finger.....picking it up is like putting on a glove......really amazing....Ive never seen a Luger like this.......Im Happy with it...

Hans,

I would take that "major Luger dealer's" comment with a VERY large grain of salt.

--Dwight

wlyon · 06-19-2012, 08:53 PM

The Germans maintained very excellent quality control until the end of the war. That included inspection marks/ proofs on all military lugers. Over the past 50 or so years of collecting and looking at lugers I have seen many 1918 military lugers but never one without the marks, unless it had been scrubbed. I think your major dealer better go back to Luger university. Would be interested to know who this "dealer" is? In this world of luger collecting we try very hard to justify a major variance, rarely is it correct. Maybe you have one of these, but. Happy collecting. Bill

Don M · 06-19-2012, 09:21 PM

I cannot support or refute the 1 in 20 number, but I have seen quite a few 1918 DWMs that went to the police shortly after the war and had incomplete military acceptances and proofs.

wlyon · 06-19-2012, 11:33 PM

Don
Do you mean incomplete or entirely missing ? Always nice to learn something new. Bill

Don M · 06-20-2012, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlyon

Don
Do you mean incomplete or entirely missing ? Alwys nice to learn something new. Bill

Incomplete. This is the first one I've seen that has no markings.

hansfischer007 · 06-20-2012, 09:40 AM

Ok...I told myself I wasn't going to beat this dead horse anymore....however the following comment made me come and post again....

"I would take that "major Luger dealer's" comment with a VERY large grain of salt."

The Dealer that I spoke to was Don Simpson of Simpsons Ltd...and he does all the Appraisals on all the Lugers that come in ....and has done so for a number of years......therefore...I have to say he knows of what he speaks ......and he did say that over the years it was not uncommon for approximately 1 out of 20 1918 DWMs not to be proofed........so...bottom line.......Im totally satisfied with my 1918....shoots great...and if only it were possible to find the history behind a particular Luger..(I know its Not) this one would have a long story to tell....Ive never seen grips with the wear this one has....particularly the groove on the right side that has been worn down by trigger finger use....you just have to wonder how one pistol could have been used so much......anyway......theres my $0.02 worth regarding the 1918 DWMs.....tomorrow...Im getting in a 1941 BYF that I purchased from Simpsons....however I don't think I will be posting about it.......Thanks again...Hans Fischer

hansfischer007 · 06-20-2012, 09:44 AM

my apologies...going over my notes....its was BOB SIMPSON....

freshy · 06-23-2012, 03:17 PM

At last.
Thanx to my mate here ar the pics.

Vlim · 06-23-2012, 04:08 PM

Hi,

Most of the parts, except the toggle (which is DWM marked) are Erfurt production. The whole pistol has been sandblasted and refinished.

It looks like it was a police pistol at a given time, as it has a sear safety installed.
The breech block shows signs of damage, so personally I wouldn't shoot it, which creates a bit of a dilemma: The refinished, mismatched condition qualifies it as a shooter, but the condition of the breech block could make it unsafe to shoot.

I would get it looked after by a good gun smith, perhaps have another breech block installed and enjoy shooting it. In the Netherlands you should be either registered as a sports shooter, or as a gun collector. Put it on the sports shooting license after doing the necessary fixes to make it safe.

freshy · 06-23-2012, 04:20 PM

Vlim
Thanks for the info.
Yes i am a sports shooter and i wil a gun smith have a good look at it.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-23-2012, 05:16 PM

Arjan.. With NO chamber date and no proofs on the right reciever rail... both the date and right side proofs were scrubbed when it was re blued.

On second thought..Your 13 serial number on the reciever and sideplate match and the sideplate is Erfurt proofed. Frame is likely NOT commercial and I fall back on my scrubbed theory. Likely the re finnisher removed the date and proofs.

06-07-2012, 02:34 PM	#1
freshy User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 10 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	help me. Hello I am Arjan from the Netherlands. I have just got my first P08(hopefully many more to come). I would like to know if anyone can help me with the year of construction of my P08. The bad news is that my camera broke down so i can not add picuters. I will try to discribe it as good as possible. The maker is DWM. Number 4413 no letters. Wooden grips. No matching magazine. Other stamps are the same as proof list 2 on this site and then number 15,but not all 4 are there just the 1 and the last. Anybody? I hope i did not make to many mistakes with my english. Dear regards Arjan.

06-07-2012, 03:12 PM	#2
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Arjan, welcome to the forum. It appears you have a wartime DWM. There should be a date stamped on the top of the chamber indicating the year of manufacture. If it is missing some of the acceptance stamps, it is probably a 1918 that didn't get fully inspected before the end of the war. Does it have any markings on the front grip strap? __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

06-07-2012, 04:01 PM	#4
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	Welcome Arjan, it will take pictures to correctly identify. congrats on your first luger. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

06-19-2012, 04:16 PM	#8
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	Proof Marks...?? Thanks Don for your note..... "If it is missing some of the acceptance stamps, it is probably a 1918 that didn't get fully inspected before the end of the war." ....that was what my whole discussion was about on the 1918 DWM that came in yesterday.....since then I have spoken to one of the Major Luger Dealers ...and he informed me that approximately 1 out of every 20 or so 1918 DWMs that he has sold over the years did NOT have proof marks......so my mind is resting easy........anyway...Im thoroughly entranced by the heavy wear on the grips.......you can see where the previous owner rested his trigger finger.....picking it up is like putting on a glove......really amazing....Ive never seen a Luger like this.......Im Happy with it...

06-19-2012, 08:53 PM	#11
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	The Germans maintained very excellent quality control until the end of the war. That included inspection marks/ proofs on all military lugers. Over the past 50 or so years of collecting and looking at lugers I have seen many 1918 military lugers but never one without the marks, unless it had been scrubbed. I think your major dealer better go back to Luger university. Would be interested to know who this "dealer" is? In this world of luger collecting we try very hard to justify a major variance, rarely is it correct. Maybe you have one of these, but. Happy collecting. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

06-07-2012, 03:38 PM	#3
freshy User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 10 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don. There are no more stamps to be found. No date or proof marks what so ever. Its refitted with a new barrel so there is no info to collect either. Perhaps my camera will be repaired next week and i can get some pics overhere. regards Arjan.

06-08-2012, 02:31 PM	#5
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,692 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	Welcome to the forum, and we look forward to seeing pictures of your new/first Luger.

06-19-2012, 02:24 PM	#6
freshy User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 10 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	some how i can not get the pics i made on this site

06-19-2012, 02:50 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,043 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,930 Times in 1,194 Posts	They are probably too large. Resize them to a smaller format and then try again. There are some instructions on posting images and resizing them on the forum.

06-19-2012, 09:21 PM	#12
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	I cannot support or refute the 1 in 20 number, but I have seen quite a few 1918 DWMs that went to the police shortly after the war and had incomplete military acceptances and proofs. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

06-19-2012, 11:33 PM	#13
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	Don Do you mean incomplete or entirely missing ? Always nice to learn something new. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

06-20-2012, 09:40 AM	#15
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	Major Dealers....??? Ok...I told myself I wasn't going to beat this dead horse anymore....however the following comment made me come and post again.... "I would take that "major Luger dealer's" comment with a VERY large grain of salt." The Dealer that I spoke to was Don Simpson of Simpsons Ltd...and he does all the Appraisals on all the Lugers that come in ....and has done so for a number of years......therefore...I have to say he knows of what he speaks ......and he did say that over the years it was not uncommon for approximately 1 out of 20 1918 DWMs not to be proofed........so...bottom line.......Im totally satisfied with my 1918....shoots great...and if only it were possible to find the history behind a particular Luger..(I know its Not) this one would have a long story to tell....Ive never seen grips with the wear this one has....particularly the groove on the right side that has been worn down by trigger finger use....you just have to wonder how one pistol could have been used so much......anyway......theres my $0.02 worth regarding the 1918 DWMs.....tomorrow...Im getting in a 1941 BYF that I purchased from Simpsons....however I don't think I will be posting about it.......Thanks again...Hans Fischer

06-20-2012, 09:44 AM	#16
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	name correction my apologies...going over my notes....its was BOB SIMPSON....

06-23-2012, 03:17 PM	#17
freshy User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 10 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	At last. Thanx to my mate here ar the pics. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

06-23-2012, 04:08 PM	#18
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,043 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,930 Times in 1,194 Posts	Hi, Most of the parts, except the toggle (which is DWM marked) are Erfurt production. The whole pistol has been sandblasted and refinished. It looks like it was a police pistol at a given time, as it has a sear safety installed. The breech block shows signs of damage, so personally I wouldn't shoot it, which creates a bit of a dilemma: The refinished, mismatched condition qualifies it as a shooter, but the condition of the breech block could make it unsafe to shoot. I would get it looked after by a good gun smith, perhaps have another breech block installed and enjoy shooting it. In the Netherlands you should be either registered as a sports shooter, or as a gun collector. Put it on the sports shooting license after doing the necessary fixes to make it safe.

06-23-2012, 04:20 PM	#19
freshy User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 10 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Vlim Thanks for the info. Yes i am a sports shooter and i wil a gun smith have a good look at it.

06-23-2012, 05:16 PM	#20
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Arjan.. With NO chamber date and no proofs on the right reciever rail... both the date and right side proofs were scrubbed when it was re blued. On second thought..Your 13 serial number on the reciever and sideplate match and the sideplate is Erfurt proofed. Frame is likely NOT commercial and I fall back on my scrubbed theory. Likely the re finnisher removed the date and proofs. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."